Glennon

I love that. Calling out moral beauty, you said. I love that. It's finding evidence of moral beauty all around you. It will be there if you're looking for it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here. Book is beautiful. It's a beautiful tribute and such important information. If we're going to get ourselves free, it's going to be in part through more accurate information.

So thank you for this. Thank you so much.

So thank you for this. Thank you so much.

So thank you for this. Thank you so much.

See you next time, PodSquad. Bye. Find moral beauty.

See you next time, PodSquad. Bye. Find moral beauty.

See you next time, PodSquad. Bye. Find moral beauty.

Hello everyone. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. I just told my son Chase, who's here, that I feel more nervous than I feel when I speak on a stage in front of 5,000 people because of the person we're speaking to today. So today we are speaking with Ocean Thuong and my son Chase is here. Hello.

Hello everyone. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. I just told my son Chase, who's here, that I feel more nervous than I feel when I speak on a stage in front of 5,000 people because of the person we're speaking to today. So today we are speaking with Ocean Thuong and my son Chase is here. Hello.

Hello everyone. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. I just told my son Chase, who's here, that I feel more nervous than I feel when I speak on a stage in front of 5,000 people because of the person we're speaking to today. So today we are speaking with Ocean Thuong and my son Chase is here. Hello.

Ocean, even though we're nearing our 90th recording of We Can Do Hard Things, you are the first man we've interviewed outside of Chase's dad. At the beginning of the year when we were dreaming up this pod, our producer Allison said to all of us, my dream is for the first man we host to be Ocean Wong.

Ocean, even though we're nearing our 90th recording of We Can Do Hard Things, you are the first man we've interviewed outside of Chase's dad. At the beginning of the year when we were dreaming up this pod, our producer Allison said to all of us, my dream is for the first man we host to be Ocean Wong.

Ocean, even though we're nearing our 90th recording of We Can Do Hard Things, you are the first man we've interviewed outside of Chase's dad. At the beginning of the year when we were dreaming up this pod, our producer Allison said to all of us, my dream is for the first man we host to be Ocean Wong.

And when I found out that you were going to come, the first person I told was my son, Chase, because he is the one who introduced me to your work years ago. And Chase is a very private person. So he would never have agreed to do this podcast for any other human being on earth. So thank you for doing this because this is a really special day for me to have Chase here too.

And when I found out that you were going to come, the first person I told was my son, Chase, because he is the one who introduced me to your work years ago. And Chase is a very private person. So he would never have agreed to do this podcast for any other human being on earth. So thank you for doing this because this is a really special day for me to have Chase here too.

And when I found out that you were going to come, the first person I told was my son, Chase, because he is the one who introduced me to your work years ago. And Chase is a very private person. So he would never have agreed to do this podcast for any other human being on earth. So thank you for doing this because this is a really special day for me to have Chase here too.

So Ocean Vuong is the author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. A recipient of the 2019 MacArthur Genius Grant, he is also the winner of the Whiting Award and the T.S. Eliot Prize.

So Ocean Vuong is the author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. A recipient of the 2019 MacArthur Genius Grant, he is also the winner of the Whiting Award and the T.S. Eliot Prize.

So Ocean Vuong is the author of the critically acclaimed poetry collection Night Sky with Exit Wounds and the New York Times bestselling novel On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous. A recipient of the 2019 MacArthur Genius Grant, he is also the winner of the Whiting Award and the T.S. Eliot Prize.

His writings have been featured in The Atlantic, Harper's Magazine, The Nation, The New Republic, The New Yorker, and the New York Times. Born in Saigon, Vietnam, he currently lives in Northampton, Massachusetts. So Ocean, I mentioned that you're the first man on We Can Do Hard Things, and I just wanted to start by asking you, what does it mean to you to be a man?