Gloria Steinem

Well, it's the most universal and the most basic. I'm not saying that people who are wage or domestic workers without rights, it's not that that's necessarily immediately connected to reproduction. But the very definition of patriarchy is controlling women's bodies as the means of reproduction because we happen to have wombs. And there were many centuries and cultures

Well, it's the most universal and the most basic. I'm not saying that people who are wage or domestic workers without rights, it's not that that's necessarily immediately connected to reproduction. But the very definition of patriarchy is controlling women's bodies as the means of reproduction because we happen to have wombs. And there were many centuries and cultures

Well, it's the most universal and the most basic. I'm not saying that people who are wage or domestic workers without rights, it's not that that's necessarily immediately connected to reproduction. But the very definition of patriarchy is controlling women's bodies as the means of reproduction because we happen to have wombs. And there were many centuries and cultures

Before patriarchy, it wasn't always this way. The power to give birth was a reason why women were equal and powerful and not something to be despised. to be controlled. I remember sitting once with women in the Kalahari Desert and they were showing me the natural growing herbs that they used for contraception and abortifacients and that they also used to increase fertility.

Before patriarchy, it wasn't always this way. The power to give birth was a reason why women were equal and powerful and not something to be despised. to be controlled. I remember sitting once with women in the Kalahari Desert and they were showing me the natural growing herbs that they used for contraception and abortifacients and that they also used to increase fertility.

Before patriarchy, it wasn't always this way. The power to give birth was a reason why women were equal and powerful and not something to be despised. to be controlled. I remember sitting once with women in the Kalahari Desert and they were showing me the natural growing herbs that they used for contraception and abortifacients and that they also used to increase fertility.

So obviously, ever since there have been human beings, and this is probably true of animals too, there have been ways of increasing and decreasing fertility according to the food supply or how many children or cubs you already have. I mean, it's always been present.

So obviously, ever since there have been human beings, and this is probably true of animals too, there have been ways of increasing and decreasing fertility according to the food supply or how many children or cubs you already have. I mean, it's always been present.

So obviously, ever since there have been human beings, and this is probably true of animals too, there have been ways of increasing and decreasing fertility according to the food supply or how many children or cubs you already have. I mean, it's always been present.

Yes, yes. And witches got the reputation for, quote, eating babies, unquote, because a woman would go in to see a witch pregnant and come out unpregnant. That was very sinister. And the witch trials, of course, went on not only in Europe, but here too in New England.

Yes, yes. And witches got the reputation for, quote, eating babies, unquote, because a woman would go in to see a witch pregnant and come out unpregnant. That was very sinister. And the witch trials, of course, went on not only in Europe, but here too in New England.

Yes, yes. And witches got the reputation for, quote, eating babies, unquote, because a woman would go in to see a witch pregnant and come out unpregnant. That was very sinister. And the witch trials, of course, went on not only in Europe, but here too in New England.

That's interesting because that's another way of putting it. I would just say if feminism doesn't include all women, it's not feminism. There really is no such thing as white feminism. Mm-hmm.

That's interesting because that's another way of putting it. I would just say if feminism doesn't include all women, it's not feminism. There really is no such thing as white feminism. Mm-hmm.

That's interesting because that's another way of putting it. I would just say if feminism doesn't include all women, it's not feminism. There really is no such thing as white feminism. Mm-hmm.

Well, I think we're born into some kind of hierarchy. And in order to move up in the hierarchy, we may think we have to imitate a hierarchical mind. So if you're identifying up only, then it may be much whiter up there than it should be.

Well, I think we're born into some kind of hierarchy. And in order to move up in the hierarchy, we may think we have to imitate a hierarchical mind. So if you're identifying up only, then it may be much whiter up there than it should be.

Well, I think we're born into some kind of hierarchy. And in order to move up in the hierarchy, we may think we have to imitate a hierarchical mind. So if you're identifying up only, then it may be much whiter up there than it should be.

But it's still, to me, not feminism because if just in the dictionary, you know, feminism includes all women or it's not feminism.

But it's still, to me, not feminism because if just in the dictionary, you know, feminism includes all women or it's not feminism.

But it's still, to me, not feminism because if just in the dictionary, you know, feminism includes all women or it's not feminism.

Well, for one thing. A large proportion of white women are dependent on the identity and incomes of white men. So they may be voting the interests of their husbands. They may not have information to the contrary. So in some ways, it's amazing that the majority of white women are not voting in the way that they're supposed to, in the ever-increasing majority.

Well, for one thing. A large proportion of white women are dependent on the identity and incomes of white men. So they may be voting the interests of their husbands. They may not have information to the contrary. So in some ways, it's amazing that the majority of white women are not voting in the way that they're supposed to, in the ever-increasing majority.

Well, for one thing. A large proportion of white women are dependent on the identity and incomes of white men. So they may be voting the interests of their husbands. They may not have information to the contrary. So in some ways, it's amazing that the majority of white women are not voting in the way that they're supposed to, in the ever-increasing majority.

Because it is kind of crucial where your income is coming from and who your neighbors are and what you know. And it's the job of a movement to make another supportive force in the world so that there's more choice.

Because it is kind of crucial where your income is coming from and who your neighbors are and what you know. And it's the job of a movement to make another supportive force in the world so that there's more choice.

Because it is kind of crucial where your income is coming from and who your neighbors are and what you know. And it's the job of a movement to make another supportive force in the world so that there's more choice.

Safety. Well, it's not just belief. If you're entirely dependent on a man's income, But women do, in those situations, also rebel. I mean, I remember meeting a woman after one election who told me she locked her husband in the bathroom for the entire election day because she realized that his vote negated her vote.

Safety. Well, it's not just belief. If you're entirely dependent on a man's income, But women do, in those situations, also rebel. I mean, I remember meeting a woman after one election who told me she locked her husband in the bathroom for the entire election day because she realized that his vote negated her vote.

Safety. Well, it's not just belief. If you're entirely dependent on a man's income, But women do, in those situations, also rebel. I mean, I remember meeting a woman after one election who told me she locked her husband in the bathroom for the entire election day because she realized that his vote negated her vote.

So she locked him in the bathroom so he couldn't vote. Wow.

So she locked him in the bathroom so he couldn't vote. Wow.

So she locked him in the bathroom so he couldn't vote. Wow.

Well, I mean, that may be a localized, individualized economic truth, but the larger truth is that unless we vote, we don't exist. We don't have a voice in the governance of our county, city, nation, whatever it is.

Well, I mean, that may be a localized, individualized economic truth, but the larger truth is that unless we vote, we don't exist. We don't have a voice in the governance of our county, city, nation, whatever it is.

Well, I mean, that may be a localized, individualized economic truth, but the larger truth is that unless we vote, we don't exist. We don't have a voice in the governance of our county, city, nation, whatever it is.

And our schools should be doing it, too. You know, our civics courses, our American history courses. Why did we fight a civil war over the vote and equal citizenship? Why did people die for it?

And our schools should be doing it, too. You know, our civics courses, our American history courses. Why did we fight a civil war over the vote and equal citizenship? Why did people die for it?

And our schools should be doing it, too. You know, our civics courses, our American history courses. Why did we fight a civil war over the vote and equal citizenship? Why did people die for it?

Because we're social animals. There's a reason why solitary confinement is the worst punishment everywhere in the world. So we need each other and we need to create a supportive place where women can vote for themselves.

Because we're social animals. There's a reason why solitary confinement is the worst punishment everywhere in the world. So we need each other and we need to create a supportive place where women can vote for themselves.

Because we're social animals. There's a reason why solitary confinement is the worst punishment everywhere in the world. So we need each other and we need to create a supportive place where women can vote for themselves.

It's good that you say that because it's probably true that when you say the word movement, it seems serious and difficult. And so we should include the laughter. Absolutely.

It's good that you say that because it's probably true that when you say the word movement, it seems serious and difficult. And so we should include the laughter. Absolutely.

It's good that you say that because it's probably true that when you say the word movement, it seems serious and difficult. And so we should include the laughter. Absolutely.

It's kind of a parable. And it happened to me when I was in college and taking geology, which I thought was the easiest of the science requirements. So we were on a field trip along the Connecticut River. And while the professor was telling us about the meander curves of the Connecticut River or something, I had wandered up a little dirt road to the embankment of an asphalt road.

It's kind of a parable. And it happened to me when I was in college and taking geology, which I thought was the easiest of the science requirements. So we were on a field trip along the Connecticut River. And while the professor was telling us about the meander curves of the Connecticut River or something, I had wandered up a little dirt road to the embankment of an asphalt road.

It's kind of a parable. And it happened to me when I was in college and taking geology, which I thought was the easiest of the science requirements. So we were on a field trip along the Connecticut River. And while the professor was telling us about the meander curves of the Connecticut River or something, I had wandered up a little dirt road to the embankment of an asphalt road.

And there was a turtle there in the soft dirt that was the embankment. And I thought, oh, look at that poor turtle. It's crawled all the way up here from the river and, you know, And how sad. It was a big snapping turtle. So I pushed and pulled and tugged and got this turtle back down to put in the river.

And there was a turtle there in the soft dirt that was the embankment. And I thought, oh, look at that poor turtle. It's crawled all the way up here from the river and, you know, And how sad. It was a big snapping turtle. So I pushed and pulled and tugged and got this turtle back down to put in the river.

And there was a turtle there in the soft dirt that was the embankment. And I thought, oh, look at that poor turtle. It's crawled all the way up here from the river and, you know, And how sad. It was a big snapping turtle. So I pushed and pulled and tugged and got this turtle back down to put in the river.

And just as I swam away in the river, the professor came up behind me and said, you know, that turtle has probably spent at least a month crawling up that road in order to lay its eggs in the mud of the embankment. And I felt terrible, of course. And that became a source of a, I think, still very valid political rule, which is always ask the turtle. Don't act on behalf of other people.

And just as I swam away in the river, the professor came up behind me and said, you know, that turtle has probably spent at least a month crawling up that road in order to lay its eggs in the mud of the embankment. And I felt terrible, of course. And that became a source of a, I think, still very valid political rule, which is always ask the turtle. Don't act on behalf of other people.

And just as I swam away in the river, the professor came up behind me and said, you know, that turtle has probably spent at least a month crawling up that road in order to lay its eggs in the mud of the embankment. And I felt terrible, of course. And that became a source of a, I think, still very valid political rule, which is always ask the turtle. Don't act on behalf of other people.

Well, you have a great impulse. It's just that before you act, you need to ask the people who are most impacted.

Well, you have a great impulse. It's just that before you act, you need to ask the people who are most impacted.

Well, you have a great impulse. It's just that before you act, you need to ask the people who are most impacted.

We all have turtle moments.

We all have turtle moments.

We all have turtle moments.

It serves a purpose. I mean, it's called communication. And when somebody tells us that we could have done something better, it's very valuable. It's not that we failed, it's that we're learning. And she was always a wonderful teacher. She was always very clear about that. When you talk about Flo, I think of her as, because all the time we were lecturing together, there would often be one

It serves a purpose. I mean, it's called communication. And when somebody tells us that we could have done something better, it's very valuable. It's not that we failed, it's that we're learning. And she was always a wonderful teacher. She was always very clear about that. When you talk about Flo, I think of her as, because all the time we were lecturing together, there would often be one

It serves a purpose. I mean, it's called communication. And when somebody tells us that we could have done something better, it's very valuable. It's not that we failed, it's that we're learning. And she was always a wonderful teacher. She was always very clear about that. When you talk about Flo, I think of her as, because all the time we were lecturing together, there would often be one

you know, dissident male person in the audience who would call out to us, are you lesbians? And Flo always said, are you my alternative? Which made the audience laugh and didn't pay his question the honor of answering it, you know, right? So good.

you know, dissident male person in the audience who would call out to us, are you lesbians? And Flo always said, are you my alternative? Which made the audience laugh and didn't pay his question the honor of answering it, you know, right? So good.

you know, dissident male person in the audience who would call out to us, are you lesbians? And Flo always said, are you my alternative? Which made the audience laugh and didn't pay his question the honor of answering it, you know, right? So good.

No, Flo was a great example and teacher.

No, Flo was a great example and teacher.

No, Flo was a great example and teacher.

And it's how we get better. Frequently, I think we have to ask and say, please tell me what I'm doing. doing wrong or could do better because people, maybe especially female people are reluctant to say that.

And it's how we get better. Frequently, I think we have to ask and say, please tell me what I'm doing. doing wrong or could do better because people, maybe especially female people are reluctant to say that.

And it's how we get better. Frequently, I think we have to ask and say, please tell me what I'm doing. doing wrong or could do better because people, maybe especially female people are reluctant to say that.

Well, it's a question of degree, isn't it? Because we do have to go forward into areas where we're not supposed to go. So we have to thicken up for the moment. But in general, I think it's a plus, yes, because it makes us more sensitive to what's going on in the outside world.

Well, it's a question of degree, isn't it? Because we do have to go forward into areas where we're not supposed to go. So we have to thicken up for the moment. But in general, I think it's a plus, yes, because it makes us more sensitive to what's going on in the outside world.

Well, it's a question of degree, isn't it? Because we do have to go forward into areas where we're not supposed to go. So we have to thicken up for the moment. But in general, I think it's a plus, yes, because it makes us more sensitive to what's going on in the outside world.

Well, thank you for that introduction. I'm already worrying about, can I live up to my... Right, right, right, right. But I'm really looking forward to this talk today because I know I'm going to learn too.

Well, thank you for that introduction. I'm already worrying about, can I live up to my... Right, right, right, right. But I'm really looking forward to this talk today because I know I'm going to learn too.

Well, thank you for that introduction. I'm already worrying about, can I live up to my... Right, right, right, right. But I'm really looking forward to this talk today because I know I'm going to learn too.

I would say yes, but I think what I need to add is it's because there's a movement. I mean, we're not meant to be isolated individual revolutionary pioneers or something. We, of course, need other human beings. So... the learning process becomes a positive one to go forward in a more effective way, not a rejection.

I would say yes, but I think what I need to add is it's because there's a movement. I mean, we're not meant to be isolated individual revolutionary pioneers or something. We, of course, need other human beings. So... the learning process becomes a positive one to go forward in a more effective way, not a rejection.

I would say yes, but I think what I need to add is it's because there's a movement. I mean, we're not meant to be isolated individual revolutionary pioneers or something. We, of course, need other human beings. So... the learning process becomes a positive one to go forward in a more effective way, not a rejection.

personal. It's true, but I'm worried about your turtle self because I want your turtle self to be set free. I mean... I mean, don't censor your individual turtle self either.

personal. It's true, but I'm worried about your turtle self because I want your turtle self to be set free. I mean... I mean, don't censor your individual turtle self either.

personal. It's true, but I'm worried about your turtle self because I want your turtle self to be set free. I mean... I mean, don't censor your individual turtle self either.

Yeah, in my life, in my Toledo high school life, girls did not do sports, really. I mean, we complained bitterly even about doing gyms.

Yeah, in my life, in my Toledo high school life, girls did not do sports, really. I mean, we complained bitterly even about doing gyms.

Yeah, in my life, in my Toledo high school life, girls did not do sports, really. I mean, we complained bitterly even about doing gyms.

Oh, that's fascinating. Well, I would say that a big one, maybe the biggest one, is we're still not recognizing that children, generally speaking, have two parents. Not in all situations, but in many, men can and should be really co-parents, really an equal parent. And it's...

Oh, that's fascinating. Well, I would say that a big one, maybe the biggest one, is we're still not recognizing that children, generally speaking, have two parents. Not in all situations, but in many, men can and should be really co-parents, really an equal parent. And it's...

Oh, that's fascinating. Well, I would say that a big one, maybe the biggest one, is we're still not recognizing that children, generally speaking, have two parents. Not in all situations, but in many, men can and should be really co-parents, really an equal parent. And it's...

I think it began to happen a little more during COVID because everybody was at home and men could see perhaps for the first time in a day-long basis what it takes to raise infants and little children. So we'll see, but perhaps that's been helpful. But just as women become whole people by being active outside the home, men become whole people by being active in it.

I think it began to happen a little more during COVID because everybody was at home and men could see perhaps for the first time in a day-long basis what it takes to raise infants and little children. So we'll see, but perhaps that's been helpful. But just as women become whole people by being active outside the home, men become whole people by being active in it.

I think it began to happen a little more during COVID because everybody was at home and men could see perhaps for the first time in a day-long basis what it takes to raise infants and little children. So we'll see, but perhaps that's been helpful. But just as women become whole people by being active outside the home, men become whole people by being active in it.

Yes, we did. Free to Be You and Me is a collection of children's stories. It became a book, a record, a television show, which people still see, I believe. And that was for boys as well as girls. I mean, there's a song called William Wants a Doll, you know, which is... He feels he shouldn't.

Yes, we did. Free to Be You and Me is a collection of children's stories. It became a book, a record, a television show, which people still see, I believe. And that was for boys as well as girls. I mean, there's a song called William Wants a Doll, you know, which is... He feels he shouldn't.

Yes, we did. Free to Be You and Me is a collection of children's stories. It became a book, a record, a television show, which people still see, I believe. And that was for boys as well as girls. I mean, there's a song called William Wants a Doll, you know, which is... He feels he shouldn't.

And then his grandmother says to him, no, it's very important that you learn how to take care of it, you know. And the song William Wants a Doll became a kind of anthem.

And then his grandmother says to him, no, it's very important that you learn how to take care of it, you know. And the song William Wants a Doll became a kind of anthem.

And then his grandmother says to him, no, it's very important that you learn how to take care of it, you know. And the song William Wants a Doll became a kind of anthem.

It is. I think that's the punishment to all of us for the idea of gender. We're working our way out of it.

It is. I think that's the punishment to all of us for the idea of gender. We're working our way out of it.

It is. I think that's the punishment to all of us for the idea of gender. We're working our way out of it.

Each thing depends on the equality of the next or the existence of the next. But I think just the knowledge that before European explorers set foot on this land, there were already cultures that were egalitarian.

Each thing depends on the equality of the next or the existence of the next. But I think just the knowledge that before European explorers set foot on this land, there were already cultures that were egalitarian.

Each thing depends on the equality of the next or the existence of the next. But I think just the knowledge that before European explorers set foot on this land, there were already cultures that were egalitarian.

Even Benjamin Franklin, who was not, you know, your least patriarchal of all people, but anyway, he did use the Iroquois Confederacy as a model for the Constitution because there were individual groups, linguistic groups, cooperative groups all over the country And they came together in a longhouse meeting in which everyone spoke in turn to make decisions.

Even Benjamin Franklin, who was not, you know, your least patriarchal of all people, but anyway, he did use the Iroquois Confederacy as a model for the Constitution because there were individual groups, linguistic groups, cooperative groups all over the country And they came together in a longhouse meeting in which everyone spoke in turn to make decisions.

Even Benjamin Franklin, who was not, you know, your least patriarchal of all people, but anyway, he did use the Iroquois Confederacy as a model for the Constitution because there were individual groups, linguistic groups, cooperative groups all over the country And they came together in a longhouse meeting in which everyone spoke in turn to make decisions.

And that was the basis for our Congress and for our departure from what the Europeans had left, which were kings. I mean, they did not leave democracies in which they were experienced. They really experienced them once they got here. So I wish that our courses in government or political science began when people began on this continent.

And that was the basis for our Congress and for our departure from what the Europeans had left, which were kings. I mean, they did not leave democracies in which they were experienced. They really experienced them once they got here. So I wish that our courses in government or political science began when people began on this continent.

And that was the basis for our Congress and for our departure from what the Europeans had left, which were kings. I mean, they did not leave democracies in which they were experienced. They really experienced them once they got here. So I wish that our courses in government or political science began when people began on this continent.

In my experience, they don't usually begin with Native American cultures, and I think it would be helpful if they did.

In my experience, they don't usually begin with Native American cultures, and I think it would be helpful if they did.

In my experience, they don't usually begin with Native American cultures, and I think it would be helpful if they did.

Well, I think to your first point, I think lesbians were often in the leadership of the women's movement and more advanced in consciousness because they were less likely to have or to need to have male support for one reason or another, whether it was personal or in jobs. I mean, it's obviously not a universal truth, but kind of relatively speaking. Mm-hmm.

Well, I think to your first point, I think lesbians were often in the leadership of the women's movement and more advanced in consciousness because they were less likely to have or to need to have male support for one reason or another, whether it was personal or in jobs. I mean, it's obviously not a universal truth, but kind of relatively speaking. Mm-hmm.

Well, I think to your first point, I think lesbians were often in the leadership of the women's movement and more advanced in consciousness because they were less likely to have or to need to have male support for one reason or another, whether it was personal or in jobs. I mean, it's obviously not a universal truth, but kind of relatively speaking. Mm-hmm.

And what we forget, what I forget is that in the beginning of the women's movement in the early, late 60s, early 70s and so on, the women's movement was perceived as a lesbian movement. I remember being called by a friend of mine, an editor I'd worked with for years, who, when I became publicly identified with the women's movement, called me up and said, Gloria, I didn't know you were a lesbian.

And what we forget, what I forget is that in the beginning of the women's movement in the early, late 60s, early 70s and so on, the women's movement was perceived as a lesbian movement. I remember being called by a friend of mine, an editor I'd worked with for years, who, when I became publicly identified with the women's movement, called me up and said, Gloria, I didn't know you were a lesbian.

And what we forget, what I forget is that in the beginning of the women's movement in the early, late 60s, early 70s and so on, the women's movement was perceived as a lesbian movement. I remember being called by a friend of mine, an editor I'd worked with for years, who, when I became publicly identified with the women's movement, called me up and said, Gloria, I didn't know you were a lesbian.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I hope we get over this because... The humans and other animals love each other. And there is what you might call same-sex sexual behavior in birds and animal species. I mean, hello? There's a lot of sexual behavior that's not only directed at reproduction.

No, I hope we get over this because... The humans and other animals love each other. And there is what you might call same-sex sexual behavior in birds and animal species. I mean, hello? There's a lot of sexual behavior that's not only directed at reproduction.

No, I hope we get over this because... The humans and other animals love each other. And there is what you might call same-sex sexual behavior in birds and animal species. I mean, hello? There's a lot of sexual behavior that's not only directed at reproduction.

I feel like I'm... Looking at three of my tips, it's because we are social creatures. We need each other. And so I'm inspired by what you do and my friends, you know, whether it was Dorothy Pittman Hughes or Flo Kennedy or Robin Morgan or Amy Richards, who's my colleague now. We have each other.

I feel like I'm... Looking at three of my tips, it's because we are social creatures. We need each other. And so I'm inspired by what you do and my friends, you know, whether it was Dorothy Pittman Hughes or Flo Kennedy or Robin Morgan or Amy Richards, who's my colleague now. We have each other.

I feel like I'm... Looking at three of my tips, it's because we are social creatures. We need each other. And so I'm inspired by what you do and my friends, you know, whether it was Dorothy Pittman Hughes or Flo Kennedy or Robin Morgan or Amy Richards, who's my colleague now. We have each other.

I think many of us had mothers who could not be fully their own talented, autonomous, independent selves. And that's a source of sorrow for us. And also, in some ways, we're living out the unlived lives of our mothers.

I think many of us had mothers who could not be fully their own talented, autonomous, independent selves. And that's a source of sorrow for us. And also, in some ways, we're living out the unlived lives of our mothers.

I think many of us had mothers who could not be fully their own talented, autonomous, independent selves. And that's a source of sorrow for us. And also, in some ways, we're living out the unlived lives of our mothers.

Well, I don't know if we can say it in that way, one source, but I think of power to not power over power. So I don't want the power to dictate to other people because then I will not benefit from their wisdom. But I'd like to have the power to do, you know, to create more equality and kindness in whatever the institution is, you know, whether it's my house, my neighborhood, the city of New York.

Well, I don't know if we can say it in that way, one source, but I think of power to not power over power. So I don't want the power to dictate to other people because then I will not benefit from their wisdom. But I'd like to have the power to do, you know, to create more equality and kindness in whatever the institution is, you know, whether it's my house, my neighborhood, the city of New York.

Well, I don't know if we can say it in that way, one source, but I think of power to not power over power. So I don't want the power to dictate to other people because then I will not benefit from their wisdom. But I'd like to have the power to do, you know, to create more equality and kindness in whatever the institution is, you know, whether it's my house, my neighborhood, the city of New York.

The government of the country, getting rid of Trump, you know, whatever it is, right?

The government of the country, getting rid of Trump, you know, whatever it is, right?

The government of the country, getting rid of Trump, you know, whatever it is, right?

Yes, absolutely. Because you're normalizing women as achievers outside the home and men as caregivers inside the home. That is, both get to do both. And what happens in our families is the... determinant of our political views, whether for or against, in a very powerful way. In order to do it, we have to see it. So the revolutionary power of an egalitarian, equally nurturing home is huge. Mm-hmm.

Yes, absolutely. Because you're normalizing women as achievers outside the home and men as caregivers inside the home. That is, both get to do both. And what happens in our families is the... determinant of our political views, whether for or against, in a very powerful way. In order to do it, we have to see it. So the revolutionary power of an egalitarian, equally nurturing home is huge. Mm-hmm.

Yes, absolutely. Because you're normalizing women as achievers outside the home and men as caregivers inside the home. That is, both get to do both. And what happens in our families is the... determinant of our political views, whether for or against, in a very powerful way. In order to do it, we have to see it. So the revolutionary power of an egalitarian, equally nurturing home is huge. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, whenever you respond as your authentic self and not according to whatever form of the traditional power structures around you, you're part of the movement.

Yeah, whenever you respond as your authentic self and not according to whatever form of the traditional power structures around you, you're part of the movement.

Yeah, whenever you respond as your authentic self and not according to whatever form of the traditional power structures around you, you're part of the movement.

I'm a journalist, and I'm happy to be a journalist, but I'm sure that it had something to do with the fact that I knew that my mother had worked for the Toledo Blade, and she used to show me how to fold a piece of paper to make a reporter's notebook in your palm before there were reporter's notebooks. I mean, I'm sure that I absorbed some of the love for it from her,

I'm a journalist, and I'm happy to be a journalist, but I'm sure that it had something to do with the fact that I knew that my mother had worked for the Toledo Blade, and she used to show me how to fold a piece of paper to make a reporter's notebook in your palm before there were reporter's notebooks. I mean, I'm sure that I absorbed some of the love for it from her,

I'm a journalist, and I'm happy to be a journalist, but I'm sure that it had something to do with the fact that I knew that my mother had worked for the Toledo Blade, and she used to show me how to fold a piece of paper to make a reporter's notebook in your palm before there were reporter's notebooks. I mean, I'm sure that I absorbed some of the love for it from her,

But also it's making change. I mean, what kids see in the home, if kids see their fathers as equal caregivers, even when they're very little, it's a life-changing difference.

But also it's making change. I mean, what kids see in the home, if kids see their fathers as equal caregivers, even when they're very little, it's a life-changing difference.

But also it's making change. I mean, what kids see in the home, if kids see their fathers as equal caregivers, even when they're very little, it's a life-changing difference.

No, it's interesting you say that because at the end of lectures with Flo or whatever, we would often, with the audience, end up having this kind of discussion. Just close your eyes and pretend you're living with another woman. And also the audiences were full of wisdom. I remember... kind of worrying about an older woman.

No, it's interesting you say that because at the end of lectures with Flo or whatever, we would often, with the audience, end up having this kind of discussion. Just close your eyes and pretend you're living with another woman. And also the audiences were full of wisdom. I remember... kind of worrying about an older woman.

No, it's interesting you say that because at the end of lectures with Flo or whatever, we would often, with the audience, end up having this kind of discussion. Just close your eyes and pretend you're living with another woman. And also the audiences were full of wisdom. I remember... kind of worrying about an older woman.

My father's mother was a suffragist. And she organized women, because even after women first had the vote, they were kept from voting because gangs of men and boys hung around the voting place and sexually harassed them and chased them and so on. Sounds familiar. So she organized women to go and vote in groups. for instance. And she started the first vocational high school in Toledo.

My father's mother was a suffragist. And she organized women, because even after women first had the vote, they were kept from voting because gangs of men and boys hung around the voting place and sexually harassed them and chased them and so on. Sounds familiar. So she organized women to go and vote in groups. for instance. And she started the first vocational high school in Toledo.

My father's mother was a suffragist. And she organized women, because even after women first had the vote, they were kept from voting because gangs of men and boys hung around the voting place and sexually harassed them and chased them and so on. Sounds familiar. So she organized women to go and vote in groups. for instance. And she started the first vocational high school in Toledo.

She was enormously active. She did cook dinner, I believe, every night, and she had four sons, but she was doing the most that she could do, I think. Because she was, of course, still economically dependent on my grandfather.

She was enormously active. She did cook dinner, I believe, every night, and she had four sons, but she was doing the most that she could do, I think. Because she was, of course, still economically dependent on my grandfather.

She was enormously active. She did cook dinner, I believe, every night, and she had four sons, but she was doing the most that she could do, I think. Because she was, of course, still economically dependent on my grandfather.

Oh, that's so moving because I feel like you're so much beyond that. We stand on Gloria Steinem's shoulders. I mean, I never got beyond tap dancing in the athletics department. So good.

Oh, that's so moving because I feel like you're so much beyond that. We stand on Gloria Steinem's shoulders. I mean, I never got beyond tap dancing in the athletics department. So good.

Oh, that's so moving because I feel like you're so much beyond that. We stand on Gloria Steinem's shoulders. I mean, I never got beyond tap dancing in the athletics department. So good.

Me too.

Me too.

Me too.

Well, no one, no one could ask for a better reward than what you just said. Nobody on earth. Thank you.

Well, no one, no one could ask for a better reward than what you just said. Nobody on earth. Thank you.

Well, no one, no one could ask for a better reward than what you just said. Nobody on earth. Thank you.

Thank you, Gloria. Oh, thank you for your time. No, it was fun. Thank you so much. It's a gift. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Gloria. Oh, thank you for your time. No, it was fun. Thank you so much. It's a gift. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Gloria. Oh, thank you for your time. No, it was fun. Thank you so much. It's a gift. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

And the sorrow is that she should have been able to complete her own life and to continue with what she loved, and she just couldn't.

And the sorrow is that she should have been able to complete her own life and to continue with what she loved, and she just couldn't.

And the sorrow is that she should have been able to complete her own life and to continue with what she loved, and she just couldn't.

Well, I knew that she had not actually left the Toledo Blade, the big local newspaper in Toledo, until my older sister, she's 10 years older than I am, was about six. So I realized that she had tried to continue even after... She had a child to look out for. And even after she was married to my father, a wonderfully kind, but kind of also irresponsible person.

Well, I knew that she had not actually left the Toledo Blade, the big local newspaper in Toledo, until my older sister, she's 10 years older than I am, was about six. So I realized that she had tried to continue even after... She had a child to look out for. And even after she was married to my father, a wonderfully kind, but kind of also irresponsible person.

Well, I knew that she had not actually left the Toledo Blade, the big local newspaper in Toledo, until my older sister, she's 10 years older than I am, was about six. So I realized that she had tried to continue even after... She had a child to look out for. And even after she was married to my father, a wonderfully kind, but kind of also irresponsible person.

But I realized that it had been such a toll on her that she had had what was then termed a nervous breakdown, quote unquote, and been unable to function, spent almost a year in a sanatorium. And when she came out, I think her spirit was broken. She felt she couldn't continue as she wished to.

But I realized that it had been such a toll on her that she had had what was then termed a nervous breakdown, quote unquote, and been unable to function, spent almost a year in a sanatorium. And when she came out, I think her spirit was broken. She felt she couldn't continue as she wished to.

But I realized that it had been such a toll on her that she had had what was then termed a nervous breakdown, quote unquote, and been unable to function, spent almost a year in a sanatorium. And when she came out, I think her spirit was broken. She felt she couldn't continue as she wished to.

But I did argue with that. I mean, he did say, but that would have been okay. And indeed, I said, but you would have been born instead. But that fate was the same for a lot of women. And indeed, it still is. You know, there are a lot of women who still have to give up. their dreams and their occupations in order to take care of children.

But I did argue with that. I mean, he did say, but that would have been okay. And indeed, I said, but you would have been born instead. But that fate was the same for a lot of women. And indeed, it still is. You know, there are a lot of women who still have to give up. their dreams and their occupations in order to take care of children.

But I did argue with that. I mean, he did say, but that would have been okay. And indeed, I said, but you would have been born instead. But that fate was the same for a lot of women. And indeed, it still is. You know, there are a lot of women who still have to give up. their dreams and their occupations in order to take care of children.

It's still the case that women care for children more than men do, even though there's not a star in the East. Children have fathers, too. I mean, fathers should be equally responsible. So it's better because of the civil rights movement, the women's movement, all the great social justice movements. but it's still unequal, very unequal.

It's still the case that women care for children more than men do, even though there's not a star in the East. Children have fathers, too. I mean, fathers should be equally responsible. So it's better because of the civil rights movement, the women's movement, all the great social justice movements. but it's still unequal, very unequal.

It's still the case that women care for children more than men do, even though there's not a star in the East. Children have fathers, too. I mean, fathers should be equally responsible. So it's better because of the civil rights movement, the women's movement, all the great social justice movements. but it's still unequal, very unequal.

I think this simple act, whether it's a talking circle or two women at a kitchen table or whatever it is, of being able to tell the truth about your feelings and your life experience and be heard and hear someone else's truth is how we understand life. the collective truth.

I think this simple act, whether it's a talking circle or two women at a kitchen table or whatever it is, of being able to tell the truth about your feelings and your life experience and be heard and hear someone else's truth is how we understand life. the collective truth.

I think this simple act, whether it's a talking circle or two women at a kitchen table or whatever it is, of being able to tell the truth about your feelings and your life experience and be heard and hear someone else's truth is how we understand life. the collective truth.

It's possible to understand it from reading statistics and so on, but I think it's much more likely if we hear other people's personal stories that we identify with. So every social justice movement that I'm aware of started out that way. The civil rights movement started in Black churches in the South with people testifying about what happened to them. The anti-Vietnam War movement started with

It's possible to understand it from reading statistics and so on, but I think it's much more likely if we hear other people's personal stories that we identify with. So every social justice movement that I'm aware of started out that way. The civil rights movement started in Black churches in the South with people testifying about what happened to them. The anti-Vietnam War movement started with

It's possible to understand it from reading statistics and so on, but I think it's much more likely if we hear other people's personal stories that we identify with. So every social justice movement that I'm aware of started out that way. The civil rights movement started in Black churches in the South with people testifying about what happened to them. The anti-Vietnam War movement started with

a few men resisting going off to what was an unjust war in the first place. And there's nothing more basic or radical than telling the truth and listening to the truth from other people.

a few men resisting going off to what was an unjust war in the first place. And there's nothing more basic or radical than telling the truth and listening to the truth from other people.

a few men resisting going off to what was an unjust war in the first place. And there's nothing more basic or radical than telling the truth and listening to the truth from other people.

Well, I think we need each other. I'm not sure that if I were isolated, I would be laughing. Right. Maybe. But laughter is crucial, you know, because laughter turns out to be the one emotion that can't be compelled. It's a proof of freedom. And in many Native American cultures, there's a god of laughter. who is neither male nor female and connects the known world to the unknown world.

Well, I think we need each other. I'm not sure that if I were isolated, I would be laughing. Right. Maybe. But laughter is crucial, you know, because laughter turns out to be the one emotion that can't be compelled. It's a proof of freedom. And in many Native American cultures, there's a god of laughter. who is neither male nor female and connects the known world to the unknown world.

Well, I think we need each other. I'm not sure that if I were isolated, I would be laughing. Right. Maybe. But laughter is crucial, you know, because laughter turns out to be the one emotion that can't be compelled. It's a proof of freedom. And in many Native American cultures, there's a god of laughter. who is neither male nor female and connects the known world to the unknown world.

You can make somebody afraid, obviously. You can even make someone feel they're in love if they're kept isolated and dependent for long enough, but you can't make them laugh. And I just love that as a proof of freedom. And laughing together is such a communal experience. And I think we should beware of... Churches and temples that keep us from laughing. Wait a minute. What is that about?

You can make somebody afraid, obviously. You can even make someone feel they're in love if they're kept isolated and dependent for long enough, but you can't make them laugh. And I just love that as a proof of freedom. And laughing together is such a communal experience. And I think we should beware of... Churches and temples that keep us from laughing. Wait a minute. What is that about?

You can make somebody afraid, obviously. You can even make someone feel they're in love if they're kept isolated and dependent for long enough, but you can't make them laugh. And I just love that as a proof of freedom. And laughing together is such a communal experience. And I think we should beware of... Churches and temples that keep us from laughing. Wait a minute. What is that about?

Well, now that's very interesting. You've raised a whole other frontier of laughter that I wasn't thinking about. I was thinking of the kind of sincere, irresistible desire to laugh. And you're thinking about compulsory laughter as an expected response to bullshit or, you know, whatever. Right. So thank you for saying that. Now, from now on, I should talk about the resistance to phony laughter.

Well, now that's very interesting. You've raised a whole other frontier of laughter that I wasn't thinking about. I was thinking of the kind of sincere, irresistible desire to laugh. And you're thinking about compulsory laughter as an expected response to bullshit or, you know, whatever. Right. So thank you for saying that. Now, from now on, I should talk about the resistance to phony laughter.

Well, now that's very interesting. You've raised a whole other frontier of laughter that I wasn't thinking about. I was thinking of the kind of sincere, irresistible desire to laugh. And you're thinking about compulsory laughter as an expected response to bullshit or, you know, whatever. Right. So thank you for saying that. Now, from now on, I should talk about the resistance to phony laughter.

Yes. Well, that's, yeah, that's a belittling kind of laughter. Yeah. No, I agree.

Yes. Well, that's, yeah, that's a belittling kind of laughter. Yeah. No, I agree.

Yes. Well, that's, yeah, that's a belittling kind of laughter. Yeah. No, I agree.

Right. And it's such a form of internal control because it isn't as if there's anything forcing you, you know, uh, It's an acquiescence internally. So, okay, this is the impulse. Not to laugh is just as important as being able to laugh.

Right. And it's such a form of internal control because it isn't as if there's anything forcing you, you know, uh, It's an acquiescence internally. So, okay, this is the impulse. Not to laugh is just as important as being able to laugh.

Right. And it's such a form of internal control because it isn't as if there's anything forcing you, you know, uh, It's an acquiescence internally. So, okay, this is the impulse. Not to laugh is just as important as being able to laugh.

No, well, that's great because that's, yes, the younger people around us can be great correctives.

No, well, that's great because that's, yes, the younger people around us can be great correctives.

No, well, that's great because that's, yes, the younger people around us can be great correctives.

With that look, right?

With that look, right?

With that look, right?

And I guess part of the reason that I became a writer was so I could deal with conflict more. in a peaceful setting. And the French who have a phrase for everything have a phrase, mot d'escalier. It's the words that you think of on the staircase on the way out that you should have said and didn't say. So if you're a writer, you have a place for those words. Mm-hmm.

And I guess part of the reason that I became a writer was so I could deal with conflict more. in a peaceful setting. And the French who have a phrase for everything have a phrase, mot d'escalier. It's the words that you think of on the staircase on the way out that you should have said and didn't say. So if you're a writer, you have a place for those words. Mm-hmm.

And I guess part of the reason that I became a writer was so I could deal with conflict more. in a peaceful setting. And the French who have a phrase for everything have a phrase, mot d'escalier. It's the words that you think of on the staircase on the way out that you should have said and didn't say. So if you're a writer, you have a place for those words. Mm-hmm.

But whether it's laughing or not laughing or saying what you really feel, it's all about the right to be authentic and not to be so governed by the shoulds of life, what you should do, that it takes over your body, your face, your laughter, and even your voice.

But whether it's laughing or not laughing or saying what you really feel, it's all about the right to be authentic and not to be so governed by the shoulds of life, what you should do, that it takes over your body, your face, your laughter, and even your voice.

But whether it's laughing or not laughing or saying what you really feel, it's all about the right to be authentic and not to be so governed by the shoulds of life, what you should do, that it takes over your body, your face, your laughter, and even your voice.

bodily autonomy yeah and authenticity have you told her that no but she'll listen to this so hey mom love that about you great hey mom i i'm sending you my love too and laughter a laughter of your own yes perhaps that's we should do that we should say that as well as a room of your own

bodily autonomy yeah and authenticity have you told her that no but she'll listen to this so hey mom love that about you great hey mom i i'm sending you my love too and laughter a laughter of your own yes perhaps that's we should do that we should say that as well as a room of your own

bodily autonomy yeah and authenticity have you told her that no but she'll listen to this so hey mom love that about you great hey mom i i'm sending you my love too and laughter a laughter of your own yes perhaps that's we should do that we should say that as well as a room of your own

I suppose nothing is true all the time, but I do think it's possible that it's often true because we outlive the stereotypical expectations of marriage and family and the subordinate role, if that's still around. I mean, I think just as we are maybe more ourselves when we're before 10 or 11 years old, And we're little girls who are climbing trees and saying, you know, I know what I want.

I suppose nothing is true all the time, but I do think it's possible that it's often true because we outlive the stereotypical expectations of marriage and family and the subordinate role, if that's still around. I mean, I think just as we are maybe more ourselves when we're before 10 or 11 years old, And we're little girls who are climbing trees and saying, you know, I know what I want.

I know what I think. And the feminine role hasn't descended upon us yet. We may also be more ourselves at the other end of the feminine role. And I always think it would be great if an army of gray-haired women could take over the earth.

I know what I think. And the feminine role hasn't descended upon us yet. We may also be more ourselves at the other end of the feminine role. And I always think it would be great if an army of gray-haired women could take over the earth.

It really would be.

It really would be.