Grace Hsiao

And a lot of them spun out of academic institutions.

You know, you mentioned they're valued anywhere roughly between $20 to $30 billion right now.

But they went public between like $6 to $8 billion.

That's like kind of tiny compared to American valuations right now.

However, they are actually making money.

You know, the publicly disclosed information, I think, from Minimax and Drupal indicates that they were making just as much.

Like in their last month, they made the same amount of money last month as they did last year, essentially.

Yeah.

And their end-of-year AAR projection is anywhere between $1 to $1.2 billion right now.

So they are making money.

And how?

Well, just because they're open source doesn't mean they don't make money.

I think people forget, you know, we had open source softwares before as well.

People are paying for managed services.

And when you're paying for an API through ZAI or Minimax, whatnot...

You basically don't have to self-host.

You don't have to get your own GPU.

You don't have to figure out your own compute.

You don't have to figure out your own guardrails, your deployment, your security, your monitoring, whatnot, right?

Yes, exactly.