Gustav Söderström

And if you just look at the numbers... You just have to keep going and it's going to get to billions of users paying and then several billions. Then the music industry is absolutely massive. I just think the music industry is undervalued. Terminally, it's going to be much bigger than it looks.

And if you just look at the numbers... You just have to keep going and it's going to get to billions of users paying and then several billions. Then the music industry is absolutely massive. I just think the music industry is undervalued. Terminally, it's going to be much bigger than it looks.

I'm curious how you're thinking about the podcasting world. This is something that... we're sitting here doing right now, I've been doing for a long time. Now it seems we've entered this interesting new era where when I started doing this, I remember it was quite, I would call it low status. When I told people about it in 2016, they either didn't know what it was or thought it was silly.

I'm curious how you're thinking about the podcasting world. This is something that... we're sitting here doing right now, I've been doing for a long time. Now it seems we've entered this interesting new era where when I started doing this, I remember it was quite, I would call it low status. When I told people about it in 2016, they either didn't know what it was or thought it was silly.

And now, especially in the US with what happened around the election and the importance of podcasts in the election, it seems as though it's hit some tipping point where Basically, anybody that might make sense to have a podcast now has one or is launching one. And it's the corporate marketing strategy is to get a podcast and it's the communication strategy is to go on them.

And now, especially in the US with what happened around the election and the importance of podcasts in the election, it seems as though it's hit some tipping point where Basically, anybody that might make sense to have a podcast now has one or is launching one. And it's the corporate marketing strategy is to get a podcast and it's the communication strategy is to go on them.

So it's really exploded in importance and visibility. What role has and will Spotify play in all this? And just what do you think about podcasting and its importance?

So it's really exploded in importance and visibility. What role has and will Spotify play in all this? And just what do you think about podcasting and its importance?

The reason we went into podcasting, one thing that I'm very precious about when it comes to Spotify, and so is Daniel and the other co-president, Alex, who's my closest partner, is that there are many ways we could go as a company. And I think your business model, to some extent, steers you. If you're an advertising business model, mostly you're going to be steered towards marketing.

The reason we went into podcasting, one thing that I'm very precious about when it comes to Spotify, and so is Daniel and the other co-president, Alex, who's my closest partner, is that there are many ways we could go as a company. And I think your business model, to some extent, steers you. If you're an advertising business model, mostly you're going to be steered towards marketing.

any additional engagement. Fortunately for us, we're mostly a subscription-based business model. So we focus more on retention and you're going to vote with your wallet every month if you want to keep paying for us. We're not as steered towards engagement at any cost. So having been at Spotify for a long time when this happened, one of the things that made me feel very good about Spotify was that

any additional engagement. Fortunately for us, we're mostly a subscription-based business model. So we focus more on retention and you're going to vote with your wallet every month if you want to keep paying for us. We're not as steered towards engagement at any cost. So having been at Spotify for a long time when this happened, one of the things that made me feel very good about Spotify was that

When people used it, when they lost an hour on Spotify, they felt very good about it. If you lost an hour on music, you come out feeling like that was a good hour. One of the reasons I really pushed quite hard for podcasting in the company was that I was using it myself and a lot of our developers were using it. And I saw it being hacked into the product at Hack Week every year.

When people used it, when they lost an hour on Spotify, they felt very good about it. If you lost an hour on music, you come out feeling like that was a good hour. One of the reasons I really pushed quite hard for podcasting in the company was that I was using it myself and a lot of our developers were using it. And I saw it being hacked into the product at Hack Week every year.

People wanted them there. And we just said, our developers is like a small sample of the world. What if they're a good sample of the world? So that was one push. We saw people using it internally and hacking it. But what made us decide on it was that it was this format. Everything in the world was getting more and more short form. People were bite-sized, and attention spans were going down.

People wanted them there. And we just said, our developers is like a small sample of the world. What if they're a good sample of the world? So that was one push. We saw people using it internally and hacking it. But what made us decide on it was that it was this format. Everything in the world was getting more and more short form. People were bite-sized, and attention spans were going down.

And there was this counterforce, which was long-form discussions, deep. People spoke in full sentences about quantum physics or whatever. And that just felt like something very important and good for the world. And so we looked at it. We saw that it seemed to be growing from a small base. We saw the biggest competitors being asleep at the wheel.

And there was this counterforce, which was long-form discussions, deep. People spoke in full sentences about quantum physics or whatever. And that just felt like something very important and good for the world. And so we looked at it. We saw that it seemed to be growing from a small base. We saw the biggest competitors being asleep at the wheel.

We did basically the Peter Thiel idea of it's better to go after small markets early and bet on organic growth and try to take a small share of a mature market. It looks less risk in the mature market to get 1%. But the thing people miss is the customer acquisition cost in a mature market is just massive. Whereas the customer acquisition cost in a new market is usually small.

We did basically the Peter Thiel idea of it's better to go after small markets early and bet on organic growth and try to take a small share of a mature market. It looks less risk in the mature market to get 1%. But the thing people miss is the customer acquisition cost in a mature market is just massive. Whereas the customer acquisition cost in a new market is usually small.