Gustav Söderström
speaker
294 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard May 2025
last heard May 2025
Gustav Söderström’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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It's old school engineering, exposing all this data that we have so that you can have a reasoning engine reason for you as a product person or actually for me as a consumer potential over my own data in real time. So I think that's what's happening.
So the combination of now there's a standard MCPs that you can wrap these APIs in, and many of these companies, at least us, trying to expose all of this data means that a business person, a lawyer, a product person, a designer will be able to use Cursor without having to code. And they can actually at least prototype or talk to real services. That, I think, is the journey that we're on.
It started with developers. But I think as you expose the infrastructure and wrap it in APIs, I think it's going to have to go outside.
Is a way to say that and lose a lot, but summarize it, that what we've seen happen with developers is going to happen. I'm surprised that it's Cursor that they're using. That's quite interesting. But with other similar tools.
And that just more of our work is going to feel like we're working with a team, speaking to a team, using natural language to prototype things, to try things. And that will diffuse slowly through the entire, not only just the hours of the software developer, but the hours of each of the other functional areas.
Yeah, I think so. It's hard to see where it's going to land because you're somewhere right now, but we're pretty certain that that somewhere is on this curve. So you can be pretty certain that... The workflows you see right now are not going to be the same. And that's actually one of the problems. How much are we going to build for what we see right now?
When you know the models are going to be more capable, there are going to be different tooling very soon. So you don't want to overfit too much to the moment. A reasonable...
view of a modern company is that all of its data is exposed in real time and you have some tool on top like cursor or something else maybe different tools for different skills maybe a tool more the licensing team at spotify may have a different tool to reason over all the contracts and quickly say do we think we can do this in that market and what do we need to license to do this but also the product team could ask that
licensing engine. We have 15 years of contracts, both current and previous. So this AI has a lot of insight into what music licensing looks like, more than any single person in Spotify, if you train it that way. There will probably be slightly custom interfaces for different skills. I'm not sure which is going to win out. But I think it's going to look something like that.
Right now, what we see people doing is they're sharing examples of prompts they used for the workflows and then prototypes that they've used. And that feels like very much a point in time. It's kind of hacky and different things.
If you were to calibrate the world out there, so few people have the inside view that you do, where you're excited by this technology, you're trying to embrace it, you're only able to embrace it so fast in the ways that we've described. In a 1 to 10 point scale or something like this, what score would you give how much this is impacting you so far? And how crazy this might get.
People are very excited that this is going to literally change everything. And there's some people that are actually worried about how much, how powerful it might be. From a practical real world standpoint, could you calibrate us a little bit as one of the few people that actually is both excited about it and also faces reality on a daily basis?
If you want to be as realistic as possible about it, you take the developer use case. I've seen studies from other big companies that if you actually measure out of a developer's time, the speed up is 7% or something, which sounds very disappointing because of all these things. Coding is a small part. Net new is a small part of that and so forth.
So I think right now it's a bit overhyped in terms of actual impact, at least for these big companies. But I think it's going to turn it into the opposite. And I think right now people are overexcited versus the actual impact. But I think the opposite is going to happen. I think it's going to have tremendous impact over the longer term. What I see people doing right now, it depends.
I mean, I use it a lot personally. I see a lot of my developers and product people and designers use it all the time for just productivity purposes. Putting things into an engine, asking it for the summary and so forth. Those things happen all the time. It's hard for me to estimate how much that speeds them up already. It certainly does. But I think the really big impact...
comes as you reshape these companies from this technology. Right now, we're just tacking it on top. But as I said, you have to reshape it and rebuild it for this world where a reasoning engine can reason in real time over the entire company's data. But that requires actually a lot of retooling. That's why startups are ahead. They don't have to rebuild. They don't have 15 years of data.
So they're probably in the future, which is why they feel like, no, no, good stuff is wrong. The impact is really big already. And I think it is. for a startup. I think it takes a bit longer for big companies and big companies like us, we have to shape up and accelerate in order to not be behind.
I'm sure they would all like to have 700 million monthly active users to experiment with, though. On that topic, you mentioned going through mobile and the experience of not only was everything was changing as a result of mobile, but actually the business model also needed to change. We've really talked about product so far, and there's more to ask about product. But talk about business model.
What would be the world in which, as a result of this technology, Spotify's whole business model needs to change? And how do you go about evaluating something like that?
We've seen a few of those examples of business models. And I tend to tell my product teams, everyone says that the world is disrupted and changed by technology. And I think that's true in the sense that the underlying force is technology itself. And it's this gift that keeps on giving. It gives you computers, internet, smartphones, ML, AI, quantum computing.
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