Guyon Espiner

So I don't know where this is going to go with regard to Five Eyes.

This is Susan Miller again.

She says even if we can't trust President Trump on Russia, and even though she too is evidently sceptical of those political appointees at the top of the intelligence and defence agencies who are very much Donald Trump's people, our people should keep in touch, keep up the dialogue and keep working together.

Did they?

Yeah.

Never mind the submarines.

A little after 5.30pm on February 16, 1986, the Soviet cruise liner Mikhail Lermontov hit a rock in the Marlborough Sounds.

Apparently, the pilot had taken it too close to the shore because he wanted to give the passengers on board a better view.

By 10.30 that night, the ship had sunk.

A Soviet crew member died.

Kit Bennett and the SIS still had tight links with the CIA.

But as the divers arrive in Wellington, so do the survivors from the Lermontov.

I see what you did there.

Very clever.

Like, we all need to pay attention to what's happening beneath the surface.

It does.

And look, this has been a hell of a story.

These spy games that play out in the shadows, we've been able to see how they're played by real people for high stakes and with a real world impact that spreads out across the political landscape.

Is this the bit where you lecture me about the difference between spycraft and statecraft?

No, although it's interesting, right?