Hahrie Han

Great to see you. Thanks so much for having me.

Great to see you. Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, I am really interested in this question of what it takes to equip people to act identically and strategically and thoughtfully in the public square, you know? And so that's, you know, people might traditionally think of this as a question of like, how do we engage people in politics, questions about political participation, building social movements, collective action. that kind of thing.

Yeah, I am really interested in this question of what it takes to equip people to act identically and strategically and thoughtfully in the public square, you know? And so that's, you know, people might traditionally think of this as a question of like, how do we engage people in politics, questions about political participation, building social movements, collective action. that kind of thing.

But I think at the core of a lot of those questions is ultimately this question of, you know, what does it mean for someone to be an architect of their own future, which is what democracy should be in a sense. And how do we equip people to be able to do that? Because it's not a natural set of capacities that people need.

But I think at the core of a lot of those questions is ultimately this question of, you know, what does it mean for someone to be an architect of their own future, which is what democracy should be in a sense. And how do we equip people to be able to do that? Because it's not a natural set of capacities that people need.

And then in the context of a democracy, what is the science of how people come together to behave with each other, right? Because you can't do that alone in our political system.

And then in the context of a democracy, what is the science of how people come together to behave with each other, right? Because you can't do that alone in our political system.

Yes, exactly. So I think obviously voting is important, so I'm not trying to minimize the value of that in any way. But if that's the only way in which people experience democracy or politics in their life, then I think it's a really impoverished view of what it could be, but also what it should be in our societal system.

Yes, exactly. So I think obviously voting is important, so I'm not trying to minimize the value of that in any way. But if that's the only way in which people experience democracy or politics in their life, then I think it's a really impoverished view of what it could be, but also what it should be in our societal system.

Yeah, there's I mean, there's so many people out there who spend a lot of time defining like what is democracy and so on and so forth. And my favorite definition out there comes from a woman named Valerie Bunce, who was actually originally a scholar of Eastern Europe.

Yeah, there's I mean, there's so many people out there who spend a lot of time defining like what is democracy and so on and so forth. And my favorite definition out there comes from a woman named Valerie Bunce, who was actually originally a scholar of Eastern Europe.

And she was trying to articulate a definition of democracy that's different from, you know, more authoritarian systems and other ways of organizing government and politics. And what she says is that democracy is unique among all other forms of government because it demands that people accept uncertainty over outcome in order to have certainty over process. Right.

And she was trying to articulate a definition of democracy that's different from, you know, more authoritarian systems and other ways of organizing government and politics. And what she says is that democracy is unique among all other forms of government because it demands that people accept uncertainty over outcome in order to have certainty over process. Right.

Which to me is really interesting because what it does is it puts a focus. It's interesting. I mean, it's not different from other definitions in the sense that everyone would agree that democracy is a system in which people lose, right? And you have a peaceful transition of power.

Which to me is really interesting because what it does is it puts a focus. It's interesting. I mean, it's not different from other definitions in the sense that everyone would agree that democracy is a system in which people lose, right? And you have a peaceful transition of power.

But what I like about the way that she defines it is that it puts a focus on two things that I think are really important. One is the question of uncertainty, right? That we're asking people to do something that is really both cognitively and emotionally difficult for humans, right? And so it's counterproductive.

But what I like about the way that she defines it is that it puts a focus on two things that I think are really important. One is the question of uncertainty, right? That we're asking people to do something that is really both cognitively and emotionally difficult for humans, right? And so it's counterproductive.

countercultural to our natural tendencies to accept that kind of uncertainty over outcome. But the second thing is it juxtaposes that with the sense that what we're trading is a commitment to a set of rights and responsibilities.

countercultural to our natural tendencies to accept that kind of uncertainty over outcome. But the second thing is it juxtaposes that with the sense that what we're trading is a commitment to a set of rights and responsibilities.