Hanna Rosin

I can't say they're not shifting. They're definitely shifting. I mean, you know men down the generation shift. Let's take a father who's 30 in a certain social class. There are different expectations of fathers now, I think.

Yes. Way different. I do think maybe we can take some hope in that, that in the current moment, some of the stigmas around how you have to be as a man are fading away. Like in the things we talk about, like a Trump rally or January 6th, maybe there's some very loud theatrical ways in which they're not fading, but maybe there are some subterranean ways in which they are fading.

Yes. Way different. I do think maybe we can take some hope in that, that in the current moment, some of the stigmas around how you have to be as a man are fading away. Like in the things we talk about, like a Trump rally or January 6th, maybe there's some very loud theatrical ways in which they're not fading, but maybe there are some subterranean ways in which they are fading.

Yes. Way different. I do think maybe we can take some hope in that, that in the current moment, some of the stigmas around how you have to be as a man are fading away. Like in the things we talk about, like a Trump rally or January 6th, maybe there's some very loud theatrical ways in which they're not fading, but maybe there are some subterranean ways in which they are fading.

Like they're just, you know, what you are expected to do at home, how you can express yourself. I mean, I have to say I've been surprised at the different corners where I come to see men starting to recognize how important it is to understand your emotions, talk about them, how it holds you back if you can't. Like, that's the thing that's sort of trickling wider than I expected it to. Yeah.

Like they're just, you know, what you are expected to do at home, how you can express yourself. I mean, I have to say I've been surprised at the different corners where I come to see men starting to recognize how important it is to understand your emotions, talk about them, how it holds you back if you can't. Like, that's the thing that's sort of trickling wider than I expected it to. Yeah.

Like they're just, you know, what you are expected to do at home, how you can express yourself. I mean, I have to say I've been surprised at the different corners where I come to see men starting to recognize how important it is to understand your emotions, talk about them, how it holds you back if you can't. Like, that's the thing that's sort of trickling wider than I expected it to. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

suffocated to a kind of... Oh, Brittany, that is really... I mean, I can't... That is good imagery because I have long been thinking like there is this sense where women are like hustlers and they're immigrants. They'll take any job. They go to the community college. I'm just talking statistically.

suffocated to a kind of... Oh, Brittany, that is really... I mean, I can't... That is good imagery because I have long been thinking like there is this sense where women are like hustlers and they're immigrants. They'll take any job. They go to the community college. I'm just talking statistically.

suffocated to a kind of... Oh, Brittany, that is really... I mean, I can't... That is good imagery because I have long been thinking like there is this sense where women are like hustlers and they're immigrants. They'll take any job. They go to the community college. I'm just talking statistically.

Yeah, like they're just hustling. It's like, oh, I got to take care of the kid. Oh, I got to be a pharmacist. I got to go to school. I got to do this. I got to do this. And then all of a sudden they've strangled this tree in the middle that's kind of like stood still. You know, I think that's a really, really, really good imagery for this current moment.

Yeah, like they're just hustling. It's like, oh, I got to take care of the kid. Oh, I got to be a pharmacist. I got to go to school. I got to do this. I got to do this. And then all of a sudden they've strangled this tree in the middle that's kind of like stood still. You know, I think that's a really, really, really good imagery for this current moment.

Yeah, like they're just hustling. It's like, oh, I got to take care of the kid. Oh, I got to be a pharmacist. I got to go to school. I got to do this. I got to do this. And then all of a sudden they've strangled this tree in the middle that's kind of like stood still. You know, I think that's a really, really, really good imagery for this current moment.

The only problem with that imagery is that the top leaves of the tree... Like if you take the tree still, it's like being strangled, strangled down at the bottom, strangled towards the middle. But then when you get to the very top, that center tree totally dominates the canopy. So that's how I'm going to complete your metaphor there.

The only problem with that imagery is that the top leaves of the tree... Like if you take the tree still, it's like being strangled, strangled down at the bottom, strangled towards the middle. But then when you get to the very top, that center tree totally dominates the canopy. So that's how I'm going to complete your metaphor there.

The only problem with that imagery is that the top leaves of the tree... Like if you take the tree still, it's like being strangled, strangled down at the bottom, strangled towards the middle. But then when you get to the very top, that center tree totally dominates the canopy. So that's how I'm going to complete your metaphor there.

I just don't want to – you know, I don't want to be stupid about it. Like that is also part of the picture that at the very, very tippy top – are men. And that at some point you do encounter the mother penalty. And that is very real. Like the caretaking mother penalty still exists and is still around.