Hannah Rosen

And it sounds like it's a long road.

So does the average ICE officer on the streets of Minneapolis think they're immune?

And how does that affect their behavior?

After the break, we go inside the Department of Homeland Security.

We talk to Nick Miroff, Atlantic staff writer who covers immigration.

That's in a minute.

Nick, welcome back to the show.

So it's already been an eventful year for ICE and DHS and then came last week.

Hours after Rene Good was killed, we all saw those videos circulating about the shooting.

And instead of the usual pledges to investigate that we would expect, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem defended the shooting, called Good's actions an act of domestic terrorism.

For someone who's followed these agencies for years, what did you make of the administration's response to what happened?

So that's the administration's position.

What are you hearing from people at ICE and DHS?

Like, are they leaning into this fight?

Are they with the administration, either at the leadership level or rank and file?

Can you tell?

Before you knew anything about the shooter, like before we even knew his name, would you have guessed it was one of the new recruits?

Because you've written a lot about how ISIS tried to staff up quickly.

Like, were you surprised to learn that this was actually a veteran officer?

So how do you make sense of that?