Harley Finkelstein

He kind of shows you that thing you did that is so far beyond the expectation of the industry that you were resetting it.

There's this really great thing we talk about, which is, it'd be really great, like I say this a lot, but I adopted from him, which is every person that works at Shopify should be able to go to their

industry conference whatever their category whatever area they're in business and they should give the keynote about how they're doing their job completely different than everybody in the crowd which is like the most global maxima not local maxima thing it is like the local maxima is like like you know you're at the top of the mountain you're doing better than everyone else is doing your job the global maxima which is like toby in a

And that makes it incredibly challenging, but also incredibly rewarding.

There's this thing about life's work.

I think it obviously gets lumped into happiness and contentment and all that sort of stuff also.

We can talk about how to find your life's work, but ultimately the way you continue to do your life's work is when you feel fundamentally that

you can see serious progress.

It's not type one fun.

It's like type two fun.

And type two fun is the type of fun that you only realize that it was fun after you complete it.

In the middle of the race, it's not really that much fun.

It's at the finish line.

You're like, wow, that was fun.

That tends to be the developmental journey of Shopify.

I'm paying you to catch the ball.

And it's stuck with me ever since then.

That's right.

It is... I think when you're playing at a certain level of play, whether it's through podcasts or through business or through sport or art, music, if you try to... If you want to be above average...

Most people can get there, practice, determination.