Hartley Jafine

in an extreme version in this manufactured environment.

I do think you might be hyping this up a little too much as saying that survivors are a window into our soul.

But you know what?

I'm going to give those seasons you mentioned a watch and maybe I'll come to agree with you.

Hartley Jaffein is a health sciences professor at McMaster University.

Hartley, I've enjoyed this chat.

Thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you again for having me, David.

year 2000 in my childhood living room watching I was channel surfing as we did back then and suddenly across my screen I came across the very first immunity challenge where the two teams the two tribes were competing to win and that got me hooked right away watching these two teams kind of fight like

going through water, lighting these torches, and suddenly one of the players trips and falls and basically makes her tribe trip and completely biff the challenge.

And you were hooked from just seeing that?

And then, well, what really got me into it was then they went back and the losing tribe basically had to say, okay, who are we voting out tonight?

And for me, sitting there going, oh, it's obvious.

It's Sonya.

She fell.

She cost your tribe the challenge.

But it wasn't that obvious.

It wasn't that easy.

And watching the social politicking and thinking about who is going to go home and why are they going to go home, that strategizing really got me hooked on the very core of the show.

Part of it is I think we like to use ourselves as kind of players.