Heather Cox Richardson

That is entirely new.

And certainly there are parallels in the past where the American people have stepped up and said to those individuals who were advancing ideologies, hey, dude, this doesn't work.

We got to try something else.

But what that has also done is it has opened a window, I think.

into possibilities for moving the world forward in the ways that it will need to in the 21st century to do things like address climate change and to address the migration that's going to come from climate change and to address the fact that in that post-World War II order, you really had more even than the vestiges, I think, of colonialism, but the kind of colonialist ideas that said that, you know, Africa doesn't get a seat at the G20 until...

President Joe Biden is in office.

So one of the things I think about steering that Titanic past the iceberg, or maybe at least guaranteeing that people get in the lifeboats, is people keeping a steady hand on, I'm sorry to really push that metaphor, but the ship of state to try and make sure that it can at least keep

afloat long enough that we are there in lifeboats when we get the next way to look at the world.

Well, I think at the beginning we were trying to gain our bearings because things were happening so incredibly quickly.

And the idea of pushing back against him through the courts, for example, takes time.

That takes time to play out.

But one of the things, again, now I'm going to be Pollyanna to you here.

One of the things that does seem to be developing is a number of people in other countries who at first had their jaws on their chests watching what was happening in the United States are now sort of standing up and saying, well, actually, we don't want to go down the route of going back to the 1890s the way Donald Trump wants to because let's think about what that did.

Oh, I know, world wars.

So, you know, in places like Italy, for example, Italy this morning said that it would not permit U.S.

planes to land in Italy on their way to Iran.

Well, what does that say about the importance and the ways in which the Trump administration and the way it's behaving is hurting the far right in Italy?

You know, they don't want to be aligned with him.

And take a look at what happened to the rising right-wing parties in Canada and the emergence of Mark Carney, the prime minister of Canada.

I mean, he's an incredibly smart man anyway, but his reworking of that international order in order to make sure that what he calls the middle countries, the middling countries, are able to maintain some kind of global stability is