Irv Grossbeck

My recollection is that they had already built insurance into their offering to customers.

They simply contracted for that insurance with an existing company.

And they felt that the premiums being paid were higher than necessary for the risk that was being taken.

So then they had a chance to acquire what would become a captive insurance company.

And I remember some board members saying, that's a bad idea because you'll be valued like an insurance company if you own an insurance company.

And that's a totally different valuation metric than you're hoping for.

But I think the perception of Kevin and Jim, certainly, that some of us supported was that we're not turning ourselves into an insurance company.

We need an insurer, and it would be better not to have to pay the stepped-up value to an outside insurer if we have an opportunity to attractively acquire a small-sized company.

Jeff Chambers, I had known before that he was the lead person for TA.

I don't believe there was any kind of major price negotiation.

I think that there had been a price established and maybe agreed to, but some additional conditions were requested on the part of TA.

And I think over time...

As they were resisted by management, TA came around and decided to invest on the same terms as the rest of the equity instead of having some preferential terms.

Jeff joined the board, of course, and was invaluable over the next few years.

At Continental, we had had an original involvement with TA many years prior to that, but obviously not with Jeff Chambers.

So maybe some of that was in the deep background, but I don't remember specific conversations in which I was involved at all.

So I can't imagine that I was anything other than a validator for the company.

It had become clear that with Jim Ellis's departure a couple years earlier, in the late 90s, I think, it became clear that the rate that they're growing at, they were really thin at the top level, despite Kevin's enormous talents and his energy level and his good judgment.

They needed more help at the top.

And part of that was operational, but part of that was also recruiting.