Ismael Valdez
Appearances
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like we've got to be- D, I got a question for you because, you know, your story is super unique and your story is, you know, one of a kind to be able to come from, you know, turning wrenches to running one of the biggest private equity shows in the nation. Yeah. What do you think we have to do as influencers, right? As, you know, as being the voice of the industry.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And I hate calling myself an influencer. It pisses me off, honestly. And I don't even know if we're supposed to cuss on these, and I apologize.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Okay, I'll make sure we clean. But look, what do you think we should be focused on as the lead drivers inside the industry, which obviously you're huge in the industry and you guys are all huge in the industry. What do you think we should all focus on to being able to solve the biggest problem, which is the labor shortage?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
They're all dirty, luck too hard, luck cracks.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And there's massive wealth. Oh, my goodness. Massive wealth. There's massive wealth to be done in the trades. And that's the one thing that I think we're missing. And we're not being loud enough. You know who the loudest people are right now? You know who the loudest people are right now? The AI and the tech companies. That's why everybody wants to work for them. Who wants to work for Facebook?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Who wants to work for Google? Who wants to work for Amazon? Who wants to work for these new AI companies? Everybody wants to work for them. We need to be a way. Gotta get loud. We got to get louder. We got to get louder. Hey, you can make two, three hundred, four hundred thousand dollars as a plumber, as an electrician, as an HVAC tech, as a solar rep.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You can make that much money your first, second, third year here. Right. That's what we need to do as as that's the responsibility we have as as the face of the industry to be louder. The loudest one is who attracts the labor. Right. What do you think?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Um... I think in 2020, 2021, the noise started, right? And when I say the noise started, we started hearing, hey, you know, I think Santa Roque was one of the first private equities that came into our industry. And they bought a company out like in North California. And, you know, they were talking about some ridiculous multiples, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So I was just talking to our about this. I had lunch with them last week and we were talking about this, the labor shortage. And, you know, I'm telling him, hey, your biggest problem at Service Titan is not your biggest problem is not acquiring new clients. Your biggest problem from, you know, a million miles of view is
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Is that you're going to get capped off with the amount of technicians you have in the industry because, you know, it's a paid per technician service. So we need to fix this as a whole. Right. So how do we talk to our how do we talk to the 20, 25 year olds that don't know what to do? How do we talk to the 18 year olds that don't know what to do? That's the problem we need to solve.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think the biggest problem one of these contractors have, and, you know, I've mentored, you know, thousands of these guys and I've had one on ones with them. And, you know, through my Nuve Thermostat, we were able to we're building a training platform where we're talking to these five, two, three, four, five million dollar contractors.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And then champions went right after that service champions right by, which is 15 minutes away from me. There were a 27 year old business, you know, was doing about a hundred million dollars at the time. And, um, and then we started hearing more and more. And then, then I started getting approached.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And the one thing I've noticed is that they're not a sales driven organization.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
The reason why you and I and any or and and every and every every one of these contractors are successful is because we built a culture based on sales. We built a culture based on on on on solving problems for the consumer. We built a culture on driving forward.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And that's where most of these most of these technicians that, you know, decided to be CEOs or most of these installers that decided to be CEOs. Right. or most of these office percentiles that decided to be CEOs lack the fundamentals of a sales process. The sales process is one of the most unique and most pure form of growing the business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I'm sure just like you guys through emails and calls and people showing up to my shop, just saying, Hey man, you know, you got something valuable here. And at the time I, you know, I thought they were kidding around. I was like, you guys know we're plumbers, right? Like, You guys don't, like we do plumbing, air conditioning, and we're getting into electrical. Do you guys know that?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Can I follow up with that? I'll follow up with that. I believe that the two to three million dollar guys that are stuck in the position that they're stuck in is because... they can't find themselves. They don't know what position they should be seated on.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Sometimes you don't know that, Hey, maybe you should be running the install department or maybe you should be running the office or maybe you should be running the text. Like part of a, part of a, uh, being a, uh, uh, a high level CEO is identifying yourself in the operation and running with it. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Um, and, and at the $2 million shop, most of these guys, yes, they're doing everything themselves. What I would, what I would tell every operator out there that, that is stuck between one and $2 million is hire a sales person, hire a senior technician, hire a sales representative. Sales is a sales is a gift. Sales is a gift.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Being able to have an emotional connection with a consumer in a short amount of time and being able to persuade them to purchase something from your company is a skill and a skill that most operators lack. And there's nothing wrong with it, but you got to know your skill. I knew my skill when I stepped in that door. I knew that I knew how to market and I knew how to recruit.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And I stuck with that all the way to 108. You never saw me go inside of that house. You never saw me trying to install it. You never saw me. I identified my skill, what would benefit the operation, and I ran with it. And then I started building piece by piece of like, OK, cool. What happens after the phone rings? OK, first of all, we need somebody to answer the phone.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Second of all, we need somebody to run those calls. So what? Let's start building that process one by one. But finding the seat is finding your seat as a CEO and knowing that you've got to build the team is how you're going to be able to scale your business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just, you know, we're really interested. And at the time, I think I had like 400 employees, right? And that's when they started knocking on the door. And that's when I started educating myself because I was ignorant to, you know, I didn't even know what the term private equity was at the time. Yeah, yeah.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Yeah, I want to hear it. Ready? The way you attract high-level sales guys is by being able to provide a higher pay scale and a simpler pay scale. Whether you guys see it or not, and I'm sure you guys see it, the sales drivers, the sales people, the sales personnel, they're all incentivized by commission.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
OK, I knew a good salesman when he walked in my door, as soon as he talked commission, as soon as he talked, well, can I get a salary? Can I get or a low hourly or can I do this or can I? I'm like, if you don't walk in the door and tell me, hey, how is what is the biggest commission I can get on this ticket? You're not a sales driver.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I disagree that at the two million dollar level, you have that kind of because otherwise everybody there would be a hundred million dollar companies at the two million dollar level. There's no vision in there. That's why they're all stuck in the right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
That's a true operator right there. That is a true operator right there.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
There's a ton of them out there too.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Dude, roofing's coming right behind us too, man. You know, there's a different level of sophistication that the trade has been going through. Obviously, the solar people have been leading the pack for, you know, years and years and years, and the HVAC guys were following you guys right behind it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Whether it was a CRM or whether it was a sales-driven trade, the sales, I mean, the solar industry has led us to where we're at right now, so.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So Home Comfort was my first business. We did about 21 mail in four years, and then I did NextGen right after that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And it hurts the business too because you're taking a revenue producing person and putting them in a managerial position. And most of us forget that we need that revenue. And especially at the pivotal moment where we're at two, three, four, five million dollars. You need those drivers. You need to keep them where they're producing the most for the company.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I got a question for you guys. So coming into this industry, right, the plumbing, air conditioning, electrical industry, and coming in as a mentoring group, there's a lot of scammers out there, right? And I've called them out. I promise you, I called them out. Dustin, you've seen me. I'm not afraid to call people out. I've seen you do it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Because the reason why I'm not afraid to call it out is because I am so protective of the trades. I'm so protective of the contractors. I'm so protective of them getting taken advantage of because I'm one of them. And I've been in their shoes where it's like, man, how the hell am I going to hit payroll this month, man? And they're, you know, they're looking for that silver bullet or the coach.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So how do you as a contractor and, you know, how do you how do you distinguish who's a good coach and who's a bad coach or who's a good training platform and who's an outdated platform?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What would you ask everyday contractors that are $2 to $4 million, right? And they're looking for a coach, they're looking for a training platform. If you're one of them, what are the three questions that every contractor should be asking to whoever they're interviewing to be their coach?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What would be the top questions that they should be asking or looking for to bring out red flags or green flags?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think that was one of the one of the most eye opening things when, you know, when I was growing action and we're trying to. Get it to a size. The most eye opening thing to me, you know, I thought people were going to be standoffish of me or they weren't going to want to share their little secrets or whatever.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And, you know, I'm the type of guy that ask a million questions and my question is always why. Right. But like that's a that's a good thing about the industry, the future of this industry where I see it. Dude, back 20 years ago, nobody really talked to each other.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like Leland didn't see, you know, didn't talk to Kevin and Kevin didn't talk to Ken Goodridge and all those because social media wasn't a thing. Cell phones weren't a thing, all that. So like back in the day, it was harder for us to share information. Now that we have all these ways of communication is it's it's eye opening. How many people are willing to help each other in the trades?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And I don't know if this if this pertains to, you know, other industries, but I can guarantee you one thing. The trades are super welcoming. We welcome people that are that are good, good, hardworking people. And, you know, we welcome to to take on a project with us.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What are you most excited about this new venture you got there? Because obviously, look, Tom Howard, which is one of the most impactful people in our industry and probably one of the biggest, has one of the purest minds in our industry, brought it up to me. And he said, hey, Ishmael, you know what the next problem for you is going to be? And I'm sure you guys are going to bump into it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Like what's going to drive you to wake up the next morning after you, you know, like after I saw the money from next gen, like I still showed up to work and I took on this new thermostat project to, to be able to keep my mind busy. But what, what drives you to get up every, every morning and, and take on the responsibility of mentoring these contractors?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So that's on the personal level. What about the professional level though? What's going to drive you? Like, obviously all of us are family men and we're, you know, we're, we're God fearing men. Yeah. But what, What's going to drive you on the professional side to be able to wake up? And that question goes for you too.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
What about you, Chris?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Eh, not that many. I'm just going to be honest with you. There's not that many.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Man, you know, obviously from the obvious, my four girls do, but dude, I think I get driven by the problem, man. Like when somebody presents a problem or something that needs to be fixed, like I get so intertwined on just like I live and breathe it. Like, you know, I saw an opportunity at this thermostat when I saw what I could create with it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You're trying to be humble.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And to me, being able to prove out the model behind it and building it and structuring it and taking it world, like to me, Taking on a massive, massive problem is what drives me every day.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So I look at the operation as a whole and I look at the operation where the problem is at. Right. And this is for the trades. Obviously, I'm not an expert on anything else. I love the trades. I'm going to live and die on the trades. But I look at the operation as a whole, right? We have marketing, we have personnel, we have sales, we have everything, right?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And to me, it's fixing that one problem that still needs fixing, right? Like marketing. We're always spending marketing money in the trades, trying to acquire new clients. Why? Because we're not retaining them fast enough. We're always marketing you like an action. We were spending $1.4 million a month in marketing between billboards and TV and radio and Google and all that. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And just acquiring new clients instead of like what happened to the 450,000 people we just service in the last four or five years. Like, why can't we go? Why can't we retain that? And when I saw that through the thermostat that I'm building, I looked at the alarm company and they had they had they have the highest retention in the industry.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
They're writing at ninety four point eight percent retention. That is why they don't spend one point one percent of marketing is spent on the alarm company at ADT dot com. Right. They spend one point one percent of the revenue on marketing because they're there. That panel has their logo, has their information. You're always going to go back to them. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And that to me, when I saw that that gap in the in the in the operation, that's what lit up the fire again.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
expect us to develop a business that's profitable and gross yeah right you hit it right in the head honestly you're probably one of the most uh underrated operators in an industry man and and like all the time that we get to spend together i'm always learning something from you i'm always you know trying to see like where i can hit you from a different um angle see where i could you know grab some substance for you but you are your mind is is in the right place man i appreciate that
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Look, I have a free social media group that is called Nuva Networks Group, where I mentor about 7,000 contractors already. I grew it four years ago. I did it just to take my mind off, you know, next gen and all the different things I was doing. So I kind of did it as a side gig just to be able to take my mind off, you know, what I currently had. And it's grown to 7,000 contractors. We're, you know.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
So social media, Facebook, on Instagram, it's Ishmael Valdez, CEO. But yeah, most likely you're going to see me with Chris and the Next Level guys here helping more contractors out for sure.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
How much revenue are you guys doing now, D.?
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I think, like Dee said, we're pandemic proof, we're recession proof. I think they see the value behind us and that we're probably an irreplaceable trade. I don't care if you start making machines that can do it and start making bots that can do it. Nobody's ever going to do it like a human being can actually do it inside the trades. And I think they see the value behind it.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
You know, they finally see us as a platform that can be invested in, not just have the SaaS model and not just have, you know, the rest of the other industries. I think they see the value behind us.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I can't wait to, um, AI really gets developed into the trades because I think just like you said, you're going to have the first software company that's going to be a $500 billion written by a couple of dudes in a garage. You're also going to have the, you know, the 30, 35, 40, 50% net profit, uh,
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
My name is Ishmael Valdez. I've been in the trades for about 15 years. Just had a successful exit on a plumbing and air conditioning company about four years ago. Grew probably the fastest air conditioning and plumbing business in the nation. It took us six years and four months to exit that business.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
uh, trades, uh, uh, operations getting built out right now because, you know, um, look, whether people want to see it or not, or whether people want to believe it or not, um, AI is going to wipe 90% of your in-house support. I believe that the next, the next batch of.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
The next batch of operations that's about to blow up is going to be driven by maybe four to five drivers in the in-house support, driving hundreds of millions of dollars. Instead, you know, in action, we had 160 people in-house between CSRs, dispatching production, accounting, just the whole infrastructure to be able to hold that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I believe that AI is going to benefit the trades and take us to the next step to giving us the bigger multiples and valuing us at a higher level. So I can't wait for that to happen.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Look, California is unique, man. California is just like, it's a different side of the operation. It's a little bit more complex operation than most people are used to. It's no different from any hour. It's no different from those people. They're all driven by human beings. We just got to apply different laws to our structure. But yeah, was it difficult? 100% it was difficult.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Do I love dealing with all the behind California? 100% I don't. But I promise you, 50 million people in California, you can't beat it. You know what I'm saying? I think it was just named the fourth biggest, largest GDP in the world. So you can't ignore those numbers. You can't ignore just because there's different compliances there. You can't ignore that market.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
lot of people out of the market i've you know tommy's not in the market um there's a ton of private equities that won't touch california um i think that that's why i got a big payout um the way i got a big payout because we were able to do it in such short amount of time and do it compliant compliantly was which was one of the toughest um things to do um look growing a business in california i'm gonna put it to you guys in a in a in a simple in a simple metaphor um you know growing a business in california is like playing golf uh with the wind hitting you
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
We did zero to $108 million in revenue in six years and four months. All plumbing. We started with 8-track and then bolted on the plumbing side on it. We're about to get electric over.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I can't deal with that.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
look it's hard enough to scale a business now i you you mean to tell me that each one has to have a license and they got to have some like the look the easy part about california and i don't mean to cut you off chris the easy are the the easy part about california is i'm under my plumbing license i'm under my electric under my a-track license i could carry all the people with me right so recruiting and and building them were that's way better than here exactly
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
I'm glad you brought that up, honestly. And we should talk, we should, we should talk about it because one, you know, I don't want to make this a personal podcast order, but look at the, one of the big things and the biggest, the biggest problem we have in the industry is the recruitment side of it. Right.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
Um, we are running operations, whether you're any hour, next year, next level, everybody across the industry, we are running and building these infrastructures and operation with a limited amount of people. Okay. Like you go to California. You know, my technicians go to this company and then they bounce to this company and then they come back to this company and then they come back to us.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
And we're just sharing labor, but we're not fixing the problem. The problem we need to fix in the industry is to actually get an influx of recruitment. Right. And it starts at the high school level. And, you know, that's one of the personal goals that I have in my journey is to be able to impact that section of it, because if we can if we can actively.
Next Level Pros
#148: Can the Trades Take You Farther Than a Degree // Dustin Van Orman, Ismael Valdez // Next Level Pros
impact the educational system where we're not just pushing them to college, we give them an option to come to the trades and actually make real good money. If we can do that, that's what's going to solve the biggest problem we have in the industry, which is labor.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
So if you give them more verticals, they're already producing. Anything you're not giving them is...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Hey man, whenever we got someone that was married with kids, I was like, yes, this person's going to be responsible.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
That reminds me of that, Jerry, who's in the room with us here, just sent me a meme that's like, boy math is buying a bigger boat, so I have to work harder, right? So it's those guys.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
But there's two other attributes I would say that I've noticed is that typically guys that have had, or guys or gals that have had a little bit more of a rough upbringing, they've kind of got a chip on their shoulder. They want to prove themselves. They want to prove the world wrong. I've never seen higher producers than those guys.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
They have something to prove and they'll go out and do it every day. And so... When I was running ProSkill, you know, responsibilities, a family, and then, you know, a rougher upbringing was always the guys that really went out and produced for us.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah, we definitely do. And I think we've started to see a push in that. But unfortunately... a lot of the training we do today is reactionary. It's not proactive, right? So it's like, oh, well, my guys aren't doing this. Like you alluded to, we got to train again.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
I thought you were going to tell me Ishmael's best quality is talking about himself.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
But if we were proactive and held people accountable to the standards that we require in our company, how many of those B players would actually be A players? Because a lot of these guys are going to need the support. They're going to need their hand held to build these, to learn the processes within the company. And I see it in every company I look at is that
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
You know, there's always going to be the guys that go above and beyond, but there's a lot of really good B players that could be A players if they had the help and support that they need.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Capacitors and garbage disposals.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Thermostat built for contractors by contractors. Obviously, Nest, Ecobee, these guys totally tuned the contractor out when they were out. They went straight to the consumer. But contractors are the largest installer of thermostats in the nation, right? So why cut them out? So that's really another thing, just a problem that we saw. Nuve had all these warranty issues.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
It goes back to, you know, Tommy, I know all three of us sitting at this table are just got on early on reviews. And, you know, you get a one-star review and it's like, hey, let me talk to the customer. If I can talk to that customer, I can turn the experience in the review. If I can't talk to the customer, I've got no shot at it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
So the whole thing is like, hey, if there is a process, if you want to fire a customer, we can remove your logo. No problem. But no one can go in there and just steal the thermostat and own that wall that you installed the device on. And that really goes back to looking at the alarm industry and how they retain at such a high rate.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And it goes back to two things that we really reached a conclusion on. A, they have a subscription model that gives customers the peace of mind that their house is being monitored for their safety. And Nuve does that through monitoring of the HVAC system for their comfort. And then B is that they have proprietary hardware, as Ishmael talked about earlier, in the home with their logos on it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
So Nuve is locked down to the contractor that installs it. And that will never be changed. That'll never come off the contractor's dashboard unless the contractor chooses so.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
if i could yeah i mean they're down on revenue for sure for sure um the data shows that and you know we we had our our heyday there through through covid and everyone was at home moved up you know speaking in terms of hvac at least like moved up a lot of those replacements replaced those systems early we also had the housing boom that you know really played into that so those systems all came up at one time
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah. So, you know, we rolled out in the way that we thought it would be done. We're getting the feedback, you know, from contractors constantly in our network of like, hey, we need help with this or that. And so, you know, as you said, part of it is building the parachute. We try to predict what contractors want and need help with the most.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Like one of the things we're getting feedback right now that a lot of contractors need help with is like, hey, how do I sell this to my customers? Like how do I get customers to buy into this? And so now, you know, we're kind of, you know, Going down that path and seeing how we can help them with that.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Well, I think one of the things that people really want to see is like, what's the ROI on this product, right? And how do I go to market with it? And the reason I got, you know, I jokingly say, the reason I got dragged into this project by Tom is that I had over 5,000 customers at ProSkill on monitoring. These were new systems.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Every time we put a new system in, we put in a monitoring thermostat that Train made, right? And what we realized real quick is like, man, we know when these systems are broken. This is really valuable data because we're turning a negative experience for a customer of like, hey, we just put in this really expensive system, it's not working.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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We'd proactively call them, we'd get ahead of the issue, we'd get out there, we'd fix the issue, right? My brother, who is the marketing genius at every company we do together, he's very good at it, was like, hey, what if we put these on old systems?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Like what if we could capture these leads and create these same, you know, customer experiences, but with equipment that needs to be replaced, you know, and we're looking at a replacement lead back then, it's still several hundred dollars. And we're putting in a $300 thermostat that basically locks us into getting that lead when that system breaks. And so the ROI is such a simple thing.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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I mean, there's so many different ways you can look at it. The cost of the thermostat is cheaper than someone clicking on one of your pay-per-click ads, right? So we can reduce truck rolls by looking at the historical data. Most guys are gonna spend 300 plus dollars to roll a truck. There's the monthly monitoring that, you know, we don't charge a set, like a fee per device.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
That's in the contractor's tool belt. They can charge, you know, most guys are adding $10 to $20 a month per device. So, you know, within a year, they're basically paying for the thermostat. So there's so many ROI cases on it that if you really add them all up, it's literally a no brainer.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
But my upfront where, you know, Benny and I talk about this all the time. Like if I was starting an HVAC company today, I'm front-loading every customer that I go in their house that has a 10-year-old system, they're getting a free thermostat. Free thermostat, free thermostat, free thermostat. I'm literally just locking in replacement data like crazy. But it's a cash flow thing, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Like, you know, fortunately with our exits, we'd be able to do that. We understand that other guys have the, you know, it's going to be harder on the cash flow as they start their companies. And so we're working on ways to show them that this can work at scale.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
But there's definitely major shifts in consumer sentiment and behavior. They're holding on to their money right now. Election years are always tough. So I think we're seeing a lot of different things that are changing the way consumers are buying. And the people that are adapting are growing and the people that aren't are struggling and going backwards.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
We haven't gotten into the messaging center where you can send messages to your customers, create great customer experiences so that you're memorable, create demand leads through offering specials.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah, so on the tech side, I ran service install sales for a long time at ProSkill. And one of the things we know coming down the pipe, and it's here in California and on the East Coast, is everyone are being incentivized to switch to heat pumps. The problem is, is if you live anywhere where the infrastructure is older, there's not enough wires to run these heat pumps.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And fishing wires through, you know, an old brownstone. Cutting.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
For the new system? It requires more wires than the original.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Yeah, so we've designed a system where it requires two wires to the thermostat, which is just your 24-volt power and your common wire, right? Which everybody has at least two wires, even if it's just a heating system.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah, exactly. So that'll then communicate wirelessly with an onboard module to an interface module at the air handler or furnace. And that'll communicate completely wirelessly to the outdoor unit. So basically, as long as the thermostats go in the existing location, it'll power on, communicate wirelessly, you can run any amount of wires.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And so that's important because we're all going to heat pump systems. You know, the federal government is subsidizing it greatly to push that way. And so... If you can, you know, if you got to run a wire to the outdoor unit in the thermostat, that's a whole nother install crew on the job for the day.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
So if we can, you know, for fractions of that cost, of that labor cost, give you a wireless system that just, you know, that does that no problem, then it's a huge win for- That you can install in 10, 15 minutes, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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We don't run stranded wire. It's just 22 gauge.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And we had a flawless... I think... Well, first of all, a lot of customers... I mean, some will go right to a review. Sometimes they do give you the opportunity, but we don't listen to them until they leave the review.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
But I think one of the biggest things that we can take away from reviews is listening to them, right? And my guys, you know, I'm sure you guys have experienced it. I'd call the technician on the job and be like, hey, what happened here? Oh, customer's crazy.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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And then you realize like, hey, man, these customers aren't as crazy as we all think they are. They have legitimate complaints that we need to listen to. And so don't miss the opportunity. Just because you're getting the negative feedback, there's typically a lot we can learn from.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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A couple of things there is that I've been told a lot that a 4.8 or 4.9 is better than a 5.0. And I always ask the same question. So should I ask people to leave me one-star reviews or how do I get that down?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Yeah. What's your biggest weakness? I work too hard.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
That's a good idea. The other thing I was going to touch on that, you know, my brother and I used to call the one stars. So we realized that we had someone a lot better to call the one stars, which was our general manager, childhood best friend, Garrett, who is still managing ProSkill today.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And all Garrett would do is, it's what you said, there's one audible I'd take on it, is he'd listen and he'd just go, okay, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, okay. And at the end, he'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry for that. And instead of saying, hey, what's your time worth? Or how much, you know, what do you do for a job? He'd say, what can I do to make this right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Typically what they ask for is far less than we're willing to give. Yes. Far less.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Just listen. He had a goal of never giving any money back. He's like, I can make them happy without giving them any money. And he usually almost every time did. And so, especially for these smaller guys who, you know, a couple hundred dollars back on a job that was a couple hundred bucks is a lot. It's a big hit to cash flow. So, you don't always have to offer up money.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Being willing to listen, accept responsibility, and make it right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
This is a whole different world we're living in, man. I think, too, you know, again, going back to the position. If we're hiring a technician, we want someone with technical capabilities, right? So we found that, shout out to Discount Tire, they do a great job of teaching customer service, but those kids are hustlers and they want to work hard. They know how to work with their hands.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
We recruited a lot out of the diesel mechanics because a lot of those kids, they went there because that's their hobby. They've been wrenching on cars their whole life. That translates really easily into the trades. And so we look for people with hands-on technical experience, even if it's in a different trade. They almost always came out to be a great technician.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Yeah. You know, the cost of paid search is up drastically. You know, some searchlight data said 28% in the last two years or since 2022. And one of the things we know, you know, private equity did go to the trades, right? And part of that is you're not going to outspend private equity in marketing. They've got massive budgets. So they're driving the cost of these leads up.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
especially if they had the background in customer service.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And one thing that, you know, we wanted to solve as a group is, you know, everyone is always going to paid search to get a new customer. But, you know, we've seen all these testimonials like, hey, I started remarketing my existing customers and man, those databases are so valuable.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
That's what Leland's alluding to is if you can reach those existing customers, then there's so much more there and they already trust you for the most part, right? And so, What we set out to do is look at how we can retain these customers and what the road or the speed bumps on that road are, how we make it easier for a customer to reach the contractor than Googling.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah, we're doing regular calls. We're going to be launching here in the next 30 days or so. We meet regularly, help them on how to monetize a thermostat. Obviously, Nuve is going to be the core principle of what we're talking about, but also how we can help them in their operations overall.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Yeah, the roadmap's pretty exciting. Tommy, you alluded to it with the wireless kit that we're coming out with. We have our version 2.0 launching. Game over on 2.0. Yeah, Q1 next year. Full bezel-to-bezel screen. It's going to be a really attractive device. We've got our sensors coming out, water sensors, you know, to detect leaks.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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Again, just another way to get the contractor back in the door, get that alert. To monitor them. To monitor the system. We have a carbon monoxide sensor that's going to be built into the thermostat. For the first time, for the first time. Yeah, first time ever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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And, you know, for guys that aren't HVAC contractors, that's important because right now, if we go to put in a furnace, we have to buy a carbon monoxide detector.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
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We're just including that in there. It's just one less thing. Get some past inspection. Then you also get alerts if it's triggering that, which is, again, safety for the homeowner. We've got an awesome roadmap. A lot of things we're really excited about. This is just the beginning.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Because Google is a convenience thing. They do that. But at the end of the day, the best case is they get on, they Google your name because they remembered it. And they click a paid ad, which is going to cost you several hundred dollars, most likely, depending on the industry and location.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
The best part is that our early supporters get to help us steer that ship and decide what products they want and need.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
Worst case is there's someone conquesting your great brand that you just paid kick charge to create, and they're going to a competitor now, right? And so our goal that we set out to do is how do we help customers really build a moat, or contractors build a moat around these customers and make it easier than Google to contact them or proactively reach out to them.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
And I wouldn't, you know, I would challenge this one that like it is just a regular thermostat, but there's features there that are really a benefit to the end user, which is the customer, right? The homeowner. You know, the remote testing that you're alluding to, I know, you know, if my wife and I have to schedule an appointment, it's like, well, who's going to be home?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
You know, what's your schedule look like? The remote testing avoids another visit in the home, right? And then the remote monitoring that we can see, you know, live and historical data, we can pinpoint issues, the ability to get ahead of problems. You know, if that system breaks, the contractor can proactively reach out to the customer and say, hey, you know, I know you're at work.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
I know you're at dinner. You're out of town. but we're going to alert on your system. We need to get you set up. You're a VIP in our system. We need to get you set up for an appointment as soon as possible.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Keep Them Coming Back with Proven Client Retention Strategies
So there's a lot of benefits that come from it, but we did design it to be a look that customers are familiar with something they want in their home and to function like a normal thermostat day to day.