Ivana Hughes

It's not a garage project.

It's not something that's going to evade, especially if we were to pursue nuclear disarmament, especially in

the world of today's technologies, it would be very relatively easy to track activity, to set up inspections, to do the kinds of things that would rid the world of this threat.

I think...

think that still remains a threat.

I think that woke up some people in the early 2000s to kind of think a little bit about the threat of nuclear weapons.

Interestingly, it was in 2007, I think this sort of terrorist threat was a big part of why they did this.

It brought Kissinger and George Shultz

both of whom were former secretaries of state under Republican presidents, as well as Bill Perry, Department of Secretary of Defense under Bill Clinton and Sam Nunn, a longtime Democratic senator from Georgia, brought the four of them together in 2007.

They wrote the first of a series of articles in the Wall Street Journal titled something like Toward the World Free of Nuclear Weapons, in which they actually make

the case for both why we need a world free of nuclear weapons and why the United States should lead that effort.

I think so much of this is actually, I love, there's a quote from Daniel Ellsberg who released the Pentagon Papers and is best known for that.

He passed away a little over a year ago or so.

Daniel Ellsberg, after that kind of,

effort to end the Vietnam War really ended up spending decades speaking about nuclear disarmament and nuclear weapons issues.

And in his book, The Doomsday Machine, there's a quote I really, really love.

He says that nuclear weapons policies, past and current,

are dizzingly insane and immoral.

And that's really all I have to say in response to why would we, you know, why would we, if we think we're being attacked by one or two nuclear warheads, why would we send 82 to North Korea?

So nuclear deterrence has kind of become a sort of mantra.