Ivo Graham

No phone, no nothing.

You just stare at Babar and that motivates you to go off and try and colonise the day effectively.

No, there was an alarm.

But Ivo, this is very beautiful.

But what about, is that not peak podcast listening time?

Would you not pop on, maybe my colleague blathering on about Everton's tough season with that in your pocket while you brush your teeth?

You know, that sort of a thing?

This is very important, what we're getting to here.

I wish to just state, look, I didn't think that this podcast that me and Max are doing and you're our guest on, Ivo, was going to be the new Joe Rogan.

I mean, on some level, though, I thought that we'd be uncovering human truths.

You know, people would be like, wow, it's like a Samuel Beckett play, this podcast.

We've been lucky in the last couple of weeks, it's received some write-ups.

They've been very positive.

But let me just say, they're like, it's like listening to nothing.

It's like nice hot air.

It's just the worst possible stuff.

My point here is that there's times when I want pure information.

OK, so, for example, I will listen to In Our Time, the classic podcast.

BBC Radio 4 podcast because I'll be like, I need information.

I want to find out about the Great Pyramid of Giza.