Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Pricing

Jake Sullivan

👤 Person
311 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Well, there's a professor named Danny Roderick who writes a lot about international economic policy. And 15 or 20 years ago, he described what he called a trilemma. He said that when you look at the international economic system, you can't have all three of democracy, national sovereignty, and globalization. One of the three has to give.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Well, there's a professor named Danny Roderick who writes a lot about international economic policy. And 15 or 20 years ago, he described what he called a trilemma. He said that when you look at the international economic system, you can't have all three of democracy, national sovereignty, and globalization. One of the three has to give.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And he describes various times in history when democracy gave so that you could have both national sovereignty and globalization and times like with the European Union where national sovereignty gave. But he says you basically can't have all three. And I have thought a lot about that. And What I laid out in the Brookings speech is an effort basically to solve that trilemma.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And he describes various times in history when democracy gave so that you could have both national sovereignty and globalization and times like with the European Union where national sovereignty gave. But he says you basically can't have all three. And I have thought a lot about that. And What I laid out in the Brookings speech is an effort basically to solve that trilemma.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

It's to say, how do you have America at the center of an international economic order that is open and transparent and allows for trade and investment, but at the same time allows for a strong industrial and innovation base in the United States, does not allow for supply chains to be choked off by competitors or leveraged to punish us,

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

It's to say, how do you have America at the center of an international economic order that is open and transparent and allows for trade and investment, but at the same time allows for a strong industrial and innovation base in the United States, does not allow for supply chains to be choked off by competitors or leveraged to punish us,

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And that delivers actual benefits to working in middle class people so that you don't end up with massive inequality. How do you build that? And the Biden approach, the foreign policy for the middle class that I laid out, is an ongoing, in my view, generational effort.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And that delivers actual benefits to working in middle class people so that you don't end up with massive inequality. How do you build that? And the Biden approach, the foreign policy for the middle class that I laid out, is an ongoing, in my view, generational effort.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

to sustain democracy and national sovereignty while also not ending up back in the protectionist and nationalist mistakes of the 1930s. Will it succeed over the long term?

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

to sustain democracy and national sovereignty while also not ending up back in the protectionist and nationalist mistakes of the 1930s. Will it succeed over the long term?

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

I don't know, but I think we have put some events in motion here that kind of regardless of who's in the White House, unless they're just completely ripped away, will end up serving the United States and the international economic system well over time. And now we have to see what Donald Trump does with it.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

I don't know, but I think we have put some events in motion here that kind of regardless of who's in the White House, unless they're just completely ripped away, will end up serving the United States and the international economic system well over time. And now we have to see what Donald Trump does with it.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Well, first, I would start just on basic principles. Why did this war start? This war started because Hamas committed the worst massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and Israel responded to try to root out the threat that Hamas could do that again, as its leaders said it wanted to do again and again and again.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Well, first, I would start just on basic principles. Why did this war start? This war started because Hamas committed the worst massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and Israel responded to try to root out the threat that Hamas could do that again, as its leaders said it wanted to do again and again and again.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

The way that Israel has had to prosecute this campaign has been unprecedented in history because you are talking about an area with hundreds of miles of military tunnels underneath, with Hamas using hospitals and schools and mosques for military purposes, and with a highly densely populated area where, unlike in almost any conflict anywhere, those people were not allowed to go anywhere else.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

The way that Israel has had to prosecute this campaign has been unprecedented in history because you are talking about an area with hundreds of miles of military tunnels underneath, with Hamas using hospitals and schools and mosques for military purposes, and with a highly densely populated area where, unlike in almost any conflict anywhere, those people were not allowed to go anywhere else.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Now, that does not lessen Israel's responsibility to minimize civilian harm. And too many civilians have died in this war. And too many civilians have struggled to get the necessary life-saving sustenance, food, water, medicine, et cetera.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Now, that does not lessen Israel's responsibility to minimize civilian harm. And too many civilians have died in this war. And too many civilians have struggled to get the necessary life-saving sustenance, food, water, medicine, et cetera.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And we have pushed hard and I believe have made a substantial difference in the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza to stave off the worst effects of famine that were predicted over the course of many months.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And we have pushed hard and I believe have made a substantial difference in the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza to stave off the worst effects of famine that were predicted over the course of many months.