Jake Sullivan

Sitting here today, it is true that Hamas's military formations are shattered, its leader, Sinwar, is dead, and yet it continues to hold hostages, including American hostages, and it continues to fight and continues to assert that it will represent a long-term threat to Israel. Now, over the course of the past several months, we have been trying to work to get to a ceasefire and hostage deal.

so that hostages begin coming out and humanitarian aid can surge in and we can get to an end to the war. Alongside that, we have also been working with all of the key players in the region on a day-after plan. But you say it's been 15 months. That's so long. It's been years, decades.

so that hostages begin coming out and humanitarian aid can surge in and we can get to an end to the war. Alongside that, we have also been working with all of the key players in the region on a day-after plan. But you say it's been 15 months. That's so long. It's been years, decades.

that American presidents have been trying to deliver an ultimate political solution to the Palestinian question, and no American president has been able to do it.

that American presidents have been trying to deliver an ultimate political solution to the Palestinian question, and no American president has been able to do it.

Well, if the question fundamentally behind all of that is, why don't you just cut off weapons to Israel or offensive weapons or whatever it is, which I think the question that you're asking is, one of the things I would point out to you is that over the course of the past 15 months, Israel has not just been fighting Hamas. Israel has been fighting Hezbollah. Israel has been attacked by the Houthis.

Well, if the question fundamentally behind all of that is, why don't you just cut off weapons to Israel or offensive weapons or whatever it is, which I think the question that you're asking is, one of the things I would point out to you is that over the course of the past 15 months, Israel has not just been fighting Hamas. Israel has been fighting Hezbollah. Israel has been attacked by the Houthis.

Israel has been attacked by the Shia militia groups in both Iraq and Syria. And Israel has been attacked directly by Iran. So to talk about the cutoff of American military assistance to Israel is not just a question of, hey, do we have leverage over them in Gaza? It's a question about our obligation to help Israel defend itself against a myriad of enemies, many of whom are our enemies as well.

Israel has been attacked by the Shia militia groups in both Iraq and Syria. And Israel has been attacked directly by Iran. So to talk about the cutoff of American military assistance to Israel is not just a question of, hey, do we have leverage over them in Gaza? It's a question about our obligation to help Israel defend itself against a myriad of enemies, many of whom are our enemies as well.

And there is complexity in someone sitting down and saying, okay, I get all that, but because of Gaza, I'm not sending them any more of the kinds of weapons that they've had to use to actually fight those various foes. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

And there is complexity in someone sitting down and saying, okay, I get all that, but because of Gaza, I'm not sending them any more of the kinds of weapons that they've had to use to actually fight those various foes. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

Look, I just want to be clear, Ezra. I wasn't just trying to put forward an argument. What I'm trying to do is just give an explanation of the complexity of the decision-making when you sit in my seat, that when the proposition comes in, just cut off arms, what are the things we have to think through? So I'm not here trying to engage in a polemic and say, this justifies that or the other thing.

Look, I just want to be clear, Ezra. I wasn't just trying to put forward an argument. What I'm trying to do is just give an explanation of the complexity of the decision-making when you sit in my seat, that when the proposition comes in, just cut off arms, what are the things we have to think through? So I'm not here trying to engage in a polemic and say, this justifies that or the other thing.

I'm just trying to explain to your listeners what... One reality that we contend with is the cutoff of arms has consequences for Israel's security well beyond just Gaza. So that's one point. The second key point here, I think, goes to kind of the nature of a friendship, an alliance.

I'm just trying to explain to your listeners what... One reality that we contend with is the cutoff of arms has consequences for Israel's security well beyond just Gaza. So that's one point. The second key point here, I think, goes to kind of the nature of a friendship, an alliance.

And the broad-based cutting off of arms in the middle of a war is a truly dramatic act that has far-reaching consequences. And for that reason, President Biden has been very reluctant to think of our relationship with Israel in these kinds of transactional leverage-based terms that you've just described. Now, there have been targeted instances where

And the broad-based cutting off of arms in the middle of a war is a truly dramatic act that has far-reaching consequences. And for that reason, President Biden has been very reluctant to think of our relationship with Israel in these kinds of transactional leverage-based terms that you've just described. Now, there have been targeted instances where

where the president said, for a particular type of weapon system, it just doesn't make sense. So he paused the supply of 2,000-pound bombs because he said the military utility of these in densely populated areas compared with the civilian harm is just out of whack. And that, he said, no.

where the president said, for a particular type of weapon system, it just doesn't make sense. So he paused the supply of 2,000-pound bombs because he said the military utility of these in densely populated areas compared with the civilian harm is just out of whack. And that, he said, no.

But the broad-based cutoff, he has not been persuaded makes sense in light of our relationship with Israel and in light of the circumstance in the region as a whole. But I would argue that...