Jake Sullivan
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Podcast Appearances
That, I believe, is an inappropriate use of American leverage.
That, I believe, is an inappropriate use of American leverage.
Well, first, I would just say, personally, I was engaged over the course of 2023 and 2024 in a variety of formats around the world—in Jeddah, in Malta, in Copenhagen, in Kiev itself— around trying to put together the principles of a just and sustainable peace. So we were feeling our way through what it might look like to get to an ultimate solution to this war.
Well, first, I would just say, personally, I was engaged over the course of 2023 and 2024 in a variety of formats around the world—in Jeddah, in Malta, in Copenhagen, in Kiev itself— around trying to put together the principles of a just and sustainable peace. So we were feeling our way through what it might look like to get to an ultimate solution to this war.
But what I don't think is right is for the United States to dictate to a country that's fighting for its very survival what the exact terms or shape of a negotiation should look like, unless it's going to drag us into war. And it hasn't dragged us into war.
But what I don't think is right is for the United States to dictate to a country that's fighting for its very survival what the exact terms or shape of a negotiation should look like, unless it's going to drag us into war. And it hasn't dragged us into war.
What it has asked of the American people is what I believe is a very sustainable thing for us to give, which is the supply of weapons and intelligence and support. And I don't believe that it is a sufficient cost to the United States to continue to do that, that we should compromise our moral support for a country that is being attacked and that is having its sovereignty stripped of it.
What it has asked of the American people is what I believe is a very sustainable thing for us to give, which is the supply of weapons and intelligence and support. And I don't believe that it is a sufficient cost to the United States to continue to do that, that we should compromise our moral support for a country that is being attacked and that is having its sovereignty stripped of it.
So for me, the argument doesn't stack up that because we're supplying weapons to Ukraine, we, the United States, should dictate the outcome to Ukraine. And I would add one further point, which is one of the hallmarks of the Biden approach on Ukraine that I don't think gets enough credit is our capacity to hold the unity of the alliance together.
So for me, the argument doesn't stack up that because we're supplying weapons to Ukraine, we, the United States, should dictate the outcome to Ukraine. And I would add one further point, which is one of the hallmarks of the Biden approach on Ukraine that I don't think gets enough credit is our capacity to hold the unity of the alliance together.
President Putin at the beginning of this bet that he would break NATO, that he would divide Europe. We have held together a coalition of 50 nations through thick and thin. The United States coming along and telling Ukraine, this is how it's going to be, would surely shatter that unity.
President Putin at the beginning of this bet that he would break NATO, that he would divide Europe. We have held together a coalition of 50 nations through thick and thin. The United States coming along and telling Ukraine, this is how it's going to be, would surely shatter that unity.
And one good metric for whether the Haas position is a position that could gain purchase is, are there a bunch of allies out there, significant allies of the United States and Europe, who are saying, hey, America, go force Ukraine to the table and make them do a deal? There aren't.
And one good metric for whether the Haas position is a position that could gain purchase is, are there a bunch of allies out there, significant allies of the United States and Europe, who are saying, hey, America, go force Ukraine to the table and make them do a deal? There aren't.
And for those who say, well, this is a very passive approach, I can just tell you, the sheer number of hours I spend every day
And for those who say, well, this is a very passive approach, I can just tell you, the sheer number of hours I spend every day
helping continue to corral the broad base of international support for Ukraine, the work that we do to supply them with the necessary munitions to stay on the battlefield, and the work that we have done to discuss the shape of diplomacy in this series of engagements over the course of the past two years.
helping continue to corral the broad base of international support for Ukraine, the work that we do to supply them with the necessary munitions to stay on the battlefield, and the work that we have done to discuss the shape of diplomacy in this series of engagements over the course of the past two years.
This has been a highly proactive, highly effective strategy to frustrate Russia's ambitions and to keep Ukraine a sovereign, viable nation. And I believe we have succeeded in doing that
This has been a highly proactive, highly effective strategy to frustrate Russia's ambitions and to keep Ukraine a sovereign, viable nation. And I believe we have succeeded in doing that