Jamelle Bouie

The sense that Trump is a lame duck, I think, is growing.

I think the shutdown contributed to it quite a bit, not simply because it went so long, but because he clearly wasn't showing any particular leadership during it.

Like there was no indication that he was even capable of resolving it.

The fact that there's no legislation.

The fact that there's not really any legislation on the horizon, like is there a Trump bill for anything that anyone sees happening over like the next year?

No, there's no particular legislative program.

And then he's becoming more unpopular.

So I would suspect that, and I will say not just more unpopular with the public at large, but among Republicans, he's not in the 80s anymore.

I'm a 90% level.

He's like kind of hovering between,

high 70s, low 80s, which like for him is not great.

So I think as Republicans in Congress begin to pick up on what is actually happening in the public, they're going to, like David says, take incremental steps away from him.

But a lot of incremental steps all of a sudden looks like a stampede, right?

And so it's not, which is to say, it's not going to look like a stampede over a course of a month or two months, but we may look back and see quite clearly the movement.

Go ahead.

I mean, I disagree with that for two reasons.

First is sort of like a low-level one.

The first one is when you just ask voters about this, do you care about this?

What do you think about this?

The answers are, yes, I care about this.