James Glissan

If he does, if he puts his own evidence on, it doesn't even come down to whether or not the jury believes what he says.

So they might not believe what he says, but think it might be true, at which point they must acquit.

That's right.

Yeah.

And if they don't believe him at all and they don't think that what he's saying is even remotely possible... So the judge will say... Yep.

...you must... Then, well, in this particular case where, let's say, Ben puts on his own evidence and the jury says, well, we don't believe you at all, what the judge will tell the jury is, if you don't believe him...

It doesn't matter because the prosecution still must prove everything, even if you don't agree with what Ben said.

And not even in a big sense.

Every particular aspect of that must be to the same standard.

Right.

It's a very steep climb.

Yes.

So that's one of the few rights that we as Australians actually have.

Yep.

And they are few.

And that is the right that you are entitled to a jury trial, to be judged by members of your peers.

That's the trick.

I mean, if you're talking about this case in particular, I don't know if you can, because it's been so heavily publicized and it's been spoken about so much.

And the first defamation trial was in the headlines forever, it felt like.

So, everybody's aware of it and everybody knows that a court did, in a manner of speaking, find that he did something.