James Glissan

And I don't know if you get around it.

It does.

With the absolute greatest of respect when I say this, I have more faith in 12 independent minds than

deciding what happened and the facts of a case than one.

Even though judges are very experienced, I think it is fairer as a system to have 12 people come to the conclusion.

Well, I think it might be fair.

And the reason I say that is if it's beyond a reasonable doubt, then that's really high.

Yeah.

And if you have one or two people, certainly more, who think, well, no, I do have a reasonable doubt, you haven't met the standard.

You haven't met what is required as the prosecution.

It has to be beyond the reasonable doubt.

That's right.

It could be one step over or three miles further.

Yep.

And that is, it's a very reasonable question.

So when you're looking at that though, there, there are two different processes occurring and it's really important to, to draw a distinction between them.

The first is a lot of that assumes that it happened, right?

And then it's whether or not it was reasonable in the circumstances.

But that's really a matter more for sentence where you determine, you know, are there factors that reduce the sentence or is it really extreme?

What the fact finders in this particular case need to do, what their job is, is to determine whether or not it happened at all.