James Glissan

So when I was prosecuting, I always tried very hard to make sure that my job was simple, which was not to secure a conviction, and it was not to get a particular kind of punishment.

It was just to put all of the evidence that should be admitted, that the judge should see, and keep the stuff that shouldn't be out.

and then make submissions.

So if you sort of use that as the guiding principle of a prosecution, the decision that should have been made, the basis that really should have underpinned this entire decision when it comes to Ben Robert Smith, is, is there enough evidence that we are comfortable, almost certain, that can be admitted to bring the prosecution?

Well, often these things, they almost always start in the lower court.

So even Ben's case at the moment is technically going to start in the local court, the New South Wales local court when it comes to bail.

And there are a number of really technical and generally confusing ways in which the courts share jurisdiction for a little bit before it gets palmed off to one or the other.

Right.

But when we're looking at how this is looked at and who looks at it, there is a real issue here, which is, and I don't think that this is going to be controversial.

We're talking about the SASR, right?

We're talking about a very serious organization with very serious jobs.

And a lot of that material, how they operate, who they are, things that were done, records, they're not going to be released to the public because- Could you explain that?

Well, if they're compelled to, they don't have a choice.

It may be the case, for example, that Ben's defense team subpoenas it and they may resist the subpoena, meaning they don't want to produce it.

But ultimately, it's up to the prosecution to make sure they have enough evidence.

They're the ones who have the responsibility.

And if they say, no, you're going to give us the documents, they'll be given the documents.

Right.

But that doesn't mean that the public is going to see the documents.

That's right.