James Kirby

So what do you think people would do in that situation?

You sacrifice its discretionary powers, which is what was its great attraction.

Okay.

So folks, you can see, though there's a lot of hullabaloo around that issue, and is it a debt tax or is it not a debt tax?

And people say, oh, you know, you're winding that up.

Here's how it works.

You have to die to activate a testamentary discretionary trust.

So I don't know what else to call it, even though Treasury and the government have made it very clear, obviously, that they don't want it termed in that fashion.

OK, put that to one side.

Leo, we were talking about the political reality.

We have to talk about political reality because we don't want people to be running around saying,

making moves on the basis of legislation that might never happen.

And if you recall in the super tax debate, there was similarly people getting great attention by saying, you know, oh, my God, it's going to be unrealized gains.

And it didn't turn out to be in the end.

I'm just wondering what you think might in the end be traded off here

I think, let's just talk about the ones that are outstanding.

The testamentary discretionary trust, for instance.

Do you think there's any chance that they might repeal that idea and leave them alone in the end?

It's a wills and estates issue and it shouldn't be put in the category of family trusts, which are for those lucky enough to be alive and making plans.

Okay.