James Kirby

Here's the thing.

At the same time,

There are a lot of issues forming in that market.

I know returns have been good, but there's a lot of conflicts of interest being revealed.

There, there are real controversy around some of the way they do things, some of the accounting, continuity, vehicles, all that sort of thing.

And Blue Owl, which, whether they like it or not, they've become the sort of poster child for all that's wrong with...

private equity just now, their share price is down about 40%.

This is one of the big private equity groups, folks.

And we mentioned perhaps on the show that some local groups, Kodak Capital, for instance, have quite a significant exposure there.

So do NGS Super.

So how does someone listening to the show decode all this, Jack?

How do they sort of find and navigate a way through this new area where there's trouble being reported already?

They're not secured by assets which we would traditionally regard as secure, like a building, right?

They're secured by an imaginary future.

Will Hamilton and others who have been on the show say that, listen, you know, let's just split it into private credit and private equity.

He makes the point that private credit in Australia is a different beast, that it's much more secure, that it's narrower, that it is by implication safer than the US where it has sort of evolved into some very exotic versions of the same thing.

Do you go along with that?

So how come this was never put in front of us before?

How come it's so great now?

Why wasn't it great 10 years ago, 20 years ago?