James Kirby

Now, Eric, also tell us about the airlines and how they've been dealing with the oil shock and inflation.

If there are winners and losers there, I know Qantas is down about 10%, 15%, isn't it?

But who is managing it better, would you think?

I see.

So aviation fuel has gone up more than oil.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Okay.

And this hedging, could you explain to listeners who don't know about the hedging?

It's, I mean, it's a game really, isn't it?

They're forced to play this game, but they have to bet on the future of the oil price.

And if they get it right, they win.

And if they get it wrong, it can go horribly wrong, can't it?

Yeah, actually, that's interesting.

There's something I must tell listeners.

There's a great story about hedging.

For people who won't be familiar, say with DFO, well, the people behind DFO, David Whelan, David Goldberger, this is the originals behind it.

They sold it in recent times.

They were amazing operators.

And they've been on the rich list on and off over the years.

But a key source of their fortune, Eric, was to do with oil hedging.