James McCann

Certainly it's making a lot of people very unhappy.

And there's big protests and the New York Times is going livid.

But that's what that whole Project 2025 thing is, is let's stack...

They call it the deep state, but you just have the civil service.

There's a much nicer, cheerier name for it.

But there's, is there any sense that, I mean, this, all right, this is weird because reform is probably going to win this next election.

We spoke about this briefly.

If nothing changes, if the elections held today and they don't change, you know, if they don't get preferential voting instead of first past the post and all these things, all right, then you have three, 400 reform guys in parliament.

The whole civil service is still...

whatever that Oxbridge, BBC, Guardian reading, whatever that thing is.

Blob.

The blob.

You call it the blob?

Yeah.

I like the blob.

But how do you, is there any, how would you change the blob?

That's the real fight, isn't it?

That is the real fight because it needs what is called root and branch reform because you can't implement policies because...

What the minister does is the minister of, let's say, of health presents it to the civil servants.

But if the civil servants don't want to enact the policy, then the strategies they use is they don't refuse to do it.