James Oaten

And it could have been that maybe because she spent time in the community, you can kind of track how they're behaving and moving as well because the expert that I mentioned before, Peter Lowe, actually went to the household and was assessing how –

people were behaving and their ideology and all those kinds of things to make a risk assessment.

That's her job.

She makes risk assessments about what dangers or impacts and how people are coping.

And she acknowledged that the children would benefit from the mother's support.

And ultimately, yes, this Mariam Ra did get bail.

She did plead guilty.

in entering a declared zone, which is essentially the ISIS-controlled territory.

But she did not receive a conviction.

An argument there, and the magistrate at the time reached a decision that there was a level of control and coercion from her husband.

So when I heard these similar arguments popping up again about the need to care for a child, there is the controlling elements of the men in support of Islamic State.

You know, I was preparing myself for either way.

So, yeah, look, it would boil down to the seriousness of the charges again and the seriousness of the allegations.

And ultimately, Chief Magistrate was just not satisfied that we'd hit those, quote, exceptional circumstances this time around.

No, and the police can lay charges any time they want when they feel they have enough evidence.

Obviously, the prosecution is happy to proceed with that.

Even with all the recent returnees, we talked a little bit before in the previous episode about the two women who returned from Lebanon last year.

They crossed over from another Syrian camp into Lebanon.

They were smuggled across Lebanon.

with children.