James Pogue

But I would argue that, yes, the counter-establishment thing is a little bit real in so much as even if these are the most powerful people on Earth, which they are, and even if they do represent perhaps a new establishment, they're not coming from a place where they understand the world in the way that the establishments of finance and energy and things like that that funded the Republican Party for a

But I would argue that, yes, the counter-establishment thing is a little bit real in so much as even if these are the most powerful people on Earth, which they are, and even if they do represent perhaps a new establishment, they're not coming from a place where they understand the world in the way that the establishments of finance and energy and things like that that funded the Republican Party for a

And so I do think it's very, very important to Donald Trump to surround himself with people like that. I also think it's very important for Donald Trump to just surround himself with people he likes and with people he knows well and with people who are really rich and can help him. And so this always surprises people when they hear it.

And so I do think it's very, very important to Donald Trump to surround himself with people like that. I also think it's very important for Donald Trump to just surround himself with people he likes and with people he knows well and with people who are really rich and can help him. And so this always surprises people when they hear it.

But like amongst people I know who cover Trump pretty intimately, which I don't, but who are really like sort of there in the inner circle talking to people all the time. He's a very loyal guy. And so we have these backstories of Roy Cohn being abandoned back in the early days of Michael Cohen, that falling out, that kind of thing.

But like amongst people I know who cover Trump pretty intimately, which I don't, but who are really like sort of there in the inner circle talking to people all the time. He's a very loyal guy. And so we have these backstories of Roy Cohn being abandoned back in the early days of Michael Cohen, that falling out, that kind of thing.

But for the people who look like they share the idea of the project, that is Donald Trump. He's extremely loyal and likes to keep them around. And so I think with Musk, it's a pretty natural pairing because Musk just really likes being around Donald Trump. You can kind of see it. There was a statement, I believe, where Donald Trump was like tweeting like, Elon's been gone from Mar-a-Lago.

But for the people who look like they share the idea of the project, that is Donald Trump. He's extremely loyal and likes to keep them around. And so I think with Musk, it's a pretty natural pairing because Musk just really likes being around Donald Trump. You can kind of see it. There was a statement, I believe, where Donald Trump was like tweeting like, Elon's been gone from Mar-a-Lago.

Where's Elon? It's almost like he misses him.

Where's Elon? It's almost like he misses him.

Yeah. I mean, that is a very Trumpian thing that I think a lot of Americans don't understand. The flip side, of course, is that frequently Donald Trump falls out with the people he's closest with because they challenge him or they get too close or they fly too high. But we're talking around this nuance here. But it's like frequently hard as a reporter to explain this.

Yeah. I mean, that is a very Trumpian thing that I think a lot of Americans don't understand. The flip side, of course, is that frequently Donald Trump falls out with the people he's closest with because they challenge him or they get too close or they fly too high. But we're talking around this nuance here. But it's like frequently hard as a reporter to explain this.

No, Donald Trump doesn't really know that much about any of these grand plans, whether it's to remake a heritage America where people remember Appalachian ballads and we've reestablished this land where we can have our children buried in the same plots as our grandparents. I don't think he has a great sense of that. I also don't think he has a great sense of like what Stargate means for America.

No, Donald Trump doesn't really know that much about any of these grand plans, whether it's to remake a heritage America where people remember Appalachian ballads and we've reestablished this land where we can have our children buried in the same plots as our grandparents. I don't think he has a great sense of that. I also don't think he has a great sense of like what Stargate means for America.

Right. And I think he thinks both are like directionally pretty good and directionally pretty aligned with what he's trying to do. But as long as you're demonstrating loyalty and it's not causing friction within the coalition, he'll be fine. He doesn't really care. What will end up mattering here?

Right. And I think he thinks both are like directionally pretty good and directionally pretty aligned with what he's trying to do. But as long as you're demonstrating loyalty and it's not causing friction within the coalition, he'll be fine. He doesn't really care. What will end up mattering here?

Yeah, I think that's why you see the intervention that you saw from Steve Bannon. I think that's why Bannon actually sees it being worth going to war on some of this stuff at an early stage so that he can get in there and say like, hey, we're the ones who hold power. And this is going to sound very ironic, but I actually genuinely think this is true.

Yeah, I think that's why you see the intervention that you saw from Steve Bannon. I think that's why Bannon actually sees it being worth going to war on some of this stuff at an early stage so that he can get in there and say like, hey, we're the ones who hold power. And this is going to sound very ironic, but I actually genuinely think this is true.

There's a poll here that we're not talking about per se because it's more interesting to talk about the tech billionaires and the populists and they're the people with ideas that are generally out there in what the context of American politics has been before. But you're right.

There's a poll here that we're not talking about per se because it's more interesting to talk about the tech billionaires and the populists and they're the people with ideas that are generally out there in what the context of American politics has been before. But you're right.