Jamie Dimon

It could just be people pulling back on their spending and companies are laying off.

or they can't pass on prices or something like that.

But I do think when we have that cycle, it will be worse than people expect.

We're late in the cycle, we're late in new entrants, there's some people out there who aren't doing great credit because we see the other side of it.

And I'm not talking about private credit, I'm talking about credit in general.

That could be insurance companies, it could be private credit, it could be banks.

We see some banks doing things that we probably wouldn't do.

So there will be, and the other thing about credit, there's always, if you look at the outcomes, there's always the people did it well, they still have a cycle, and the people did it really badly.

So that's not going to surprise me when we find out who's swimming naked when the tide goes out.

No, because private credit, I mean, I'll give you big numbers.

Corporate debt in general is in pretty good shape.

Consumer debt in general is in pretty good shape.

And you take private credit, leveraged lending, 1.7 trillion.

Banks do 1.7 trillion.

The high yield market is 1.7 trillion.

I wouldn't put that in the systemic category, even if it gets worse than people expect.

So we always run, the risk management we do is we always run the company looking at a range of outcomes

and so we can handle it easily so we can continue to serve our clients.

Like there are 3,000 clients here, investor clients, 250 corporate clients.

So whatever the environment is, we're going to be good serving you properly.