Jamie Madigan
Appearances
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So in mixing the two, I have to ask this cause it's just, my brain is, I'm very curious, but in mixing these two, did that lead to kind of any like fun, like self revelations as a gamer or,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. You know, gamers come in all different types and have vastly different reasons for the games they play and why they love them. From the hardcore competitive gamers that love a challenge to the chill, relaxed gamers that want nothing more than to tend their farms.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I think we kind of figure that out naturally as gamers. I do not like sim games. Stardew Valley is a beloved game by almost everybody in the world. And to me, it's the most mind-numbing game. The Sims, for instance, to me is it's like, why do I want to play a game that's like life when I'm living life? This is just work for me.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So it's one of those things where it's like, I think people kind of naturally figure out like what they kind of gravitate towards, but it's really neat to kind of know that there is a deeper kind of understanding and basis behind that. You know, what we think is just, Oh, I just don't like this kind of game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
You know, but there's probably something there that is a reason why you don't like that kind of game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And then you had the engagement game, which is why your workplace should look more like a video game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Satisfactory is one of those games that we really, really like encourage people to play. It's, I think it's like, it just released in its full form. It was an early access for like six years or something crazy. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, we did, too. But that's one of those games where it's like, have you played this? If you haven't, you really should play this. Try it. Please try it. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So. All right. Awesome. Listen, we have some really cool topics that we're really excited to get into, but we're going to take a short break and then we're going to get into those. All right. We are back. So, you know, we're all, we're all lifelong gamers at heart. And we generally say that we aren't experts or professionals. And so it's not every day that we get access to one of those.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So we sort of came up with some of these ideas that like we wanted to know a bit more about, and we think our listeners can definitely relate to as well. So we'd love, we'd love to dive into a few of those with you, Jamie, if you don't mind. Um, The first one is a conversation that we see happen all the time. We, you know, I catch a little bit of flack for it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, that's a good read. And then most recently, the psychology of Dungeons and Dragons. I am a huge D&D fan, as are many of our listeners. Amazing, yes. And not only that, but you also have a podcast that is the psychology of video games.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I know it's meant in love, but it's just kind of, you know, know thyself type of nature. Uh, and I am very opposite in Ryan in this case. Um, and that is the, I just call it gamer ADD for myself. It is the, you know, I love playing a multitude of games. Um, I've always equated it to sampling at the buffet. Give me a bite of this, a bite of that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Let me figure out what I like, and then I'll load my plate up with some more of that. Whereas Ryan and a lot of other gamers are very much, once I find a game I like, I lock into that game. I will play it until I 100% it, get that platinum trophy, put thousands and thousands of hours into it.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
This is the only game I feel like I need because I've found a game that I find entertaining and I enjoy playing. And it's this has actually been, you know, a fun conversation amongst our community as well, because there's a lot of people that are like me. And then there's a lot of people that are kind of like Ryan in that case.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And, you know, I thought it'd just kind of be fun to kind of talk about that a little bit. Like, is there some psychology behind that? Is it just a, you know, a hey, some people like a variety and other people's don't, you know, and so. Thought it'd be kind of a fun little topic that not only we can relate to, but I know a lot of our listeners can relate to as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
closes out like this is step six of six and it will close out this quest or this progression like for a lower reward a lot of people will go and just like check the thing off the list and close it out and get it off of your quest log or what have you that's that's so funny because we were we were playing marvel rivals last night and they have a seasonal quest thing and i happen to just be looking and i'm not normally see this is what's interesting is normally in ryan the same well i don't know ryan really loves the moon knight skin so
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
But it's like cosmetics generally don't do anything for me. It's like I'm not generally paying for a battle pass. These little bars, for me at least, generally don't really matter. I want to get better. I am the competitive guy that's like, hey, I want to be better than other people in this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I want to improve my skills, learn this character, master this character in these combos and things like that. But I found myself last night doing a stupid quest where it's like, hey, if I just do this one thing, I get this Thor skin for free.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And they got me. I'm not even the kind of person that really cares about that stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
That's a long time. It takes a certain dedication, a touch of crazy, and a lot of passion to do that for this long. We've been doing this for, I think we're getting close to five years now. Yeah? Yeah. And it's been a blast, but there's definitely some work involved there as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things pay to win. I think as, as gamers, we have really rebelled against the kind of pay to win model, which I think is good. I know there's some games out there and some people like that. And if that's, you know, Hey, if that's what they like, then, you know, power to them. But I do think gamers as a whole have kind of rebelled against this.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Hey, if I pay money, I have an advantage over other people in, especially in a competitive game. Um,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I think those are better than the campaign. Honestly, I don't like them. Oh, you don't like them? Oh, that's interesting.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And I'm like, nah. It's funny because as we've gotten older, like the grind has really become almost a detriment. You know, if I know a game has a lot of grind involved to it, it's almost like a put off. And it's weird because that grind is supposed to, like, get you to want to play more. Like, it's, hey, you know, there's more that you can work for. There's more that you can do.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And younger Josh used to love the grind and that slow progression. I know Ryan was the same way with Destiny 2. You know, you were grinding every character in that game with the raids and stuff. But now... I don't know, man. Maybe it's because we're older and it's just like, I don't have time for this grind anymore.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So let's let's move on to another one, because this one, I think, is very near and dear to probably most gamers, you know, at this point. And, you know, we're dads. There's a certain stigma, especially for people that have been lifelong gamers, that the friendships that we build online and through gaming aren't real. You know, we've heard this from parents.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
We've seen it in TV and media and stuff like that, where it's like, hey, you know, if you met somebody playing Halo back in the day, that person's not your friend. You know, that might have been somebody that you played games with, but you don't know that person in real life. And so I think a lot of times there is this dismissal of online friendships.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
We were talking about and I'll just plug it because I think it's a phenomenal movie. And John is the one that actually turned us on to this. But there is a movie called The Remarkable Life of Ebeling. that focuses on somebody that is handicapped and found kind of their friendship and life through that game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And so highly recommend people check that out, especially if you want a little bit of a tearjerker there too. You know, but this is one of those things as a parent, My kids play online games, and they have met some really cool people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Our community that we have, I mean, we just had a Marvel Rivals night where we had 28 people playing Marvel Rivals together in these fun 6v6 matches, and it was just the best time. That sounds awesome. It was fantastic. You should come join us because it really is a good time.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Oh, absolutely. And so it's one of those things where I think as gamers, we have made friendships. I know we have just through this podcast and playing games with people. We've met some people that I consider very good friends, even though we've never met each other in real life. And there's the thinking that...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Not that this would happen, but hey, if the internet goes away, you don't have that friendship anymore. So it's this false friendship, so to speak. And this is a tough one, because as a dad, there is the part of me that says, hey, kids, you should have real life friends. And of course, my kids have online friends as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And even for me, somebody that's been a gamer my whole life, I still struggle with this a important as your real life friends. And I know that objectively I can look at that and kind of go, hey, that's not necessarily the case. But I'd love this topic because I think it's one that is still, there's a lot of people that aren't sure about that. So what are your thoughts on that? I have thoughts.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
There you go. It's a blog. Yeah, exactly. You got to make it official sounding. Is Blogspot even around anymore? Probably. Somebody probably gobbled them up. Yeah. I used to have a bunch of friends that were like, hey, I have a blog. Check it out, everybody. And then everybody would follow each other's blogs on Blogspot.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
That is this is awesome. I literally got chill bumps like listening to this because it's really cool to hear like this kind of laid out, you know, because again, you know, I've met some incredible people. I know Ryan has online. I'm sure like you have as well. But it's really neat to think about when you're playing games with people.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
That's before they made it easy for everybody. Exactly.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And like I said, you know, it's weird how sometimes we can just make a connection with a random stranger. Like I love Rocket League. You know, and I was playing a random match twos and I met this guy that we just oddly in Rocket League hit it off where it was like we were just in sync and we were chatting after the match. And it was like, there's just this obvious thing there.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
But I've never taken the time to consider that you meet such a broader range of people. that all have something to offer. You are exposed to people that you probably, like you said, would not meet in the bonding part. And again, these aren't people that you can say, hey, come help me install my dishwasher, but that you can reach out to.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And I mean, we've had plenty of those where it's like, hey, I'm having a rough day. I just need somebody to chat with. Or can you hop in and just play some games with me? I need to blow off some steam or something like that. So it's really cool to kind of have that like just kind of put forward and say, I think sometimes people don't take a step back and think about that kind of stuff.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So, yeah, I love it, man. Like that makes it's a really neat point.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
We have a website that's easy to update, and we don't remember to update that. Well, listen, Jamie, it's awesome to have you with us. We're really excited to pick your brain about some of the topics on gamers and gamer behavior. We're really just trying to figure out how Ryan's brain works, honestly. But let's touch on the really important stuff first, and that's that you are a gamer at heart.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I I'm a, I'm an older gentleman. I am one of those people that think that you absolutely should seek out people with different opinions than yourself too, because I think that helps us grow and understand people and you know, old guy shaking his fist at the clouds kind of thing. I feel like that's something that's dying.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And honestly, like in our modern society, I feel like people just want to go to opposite ends and nobody wants to communicate in the middle and try to figure out why people think the way that they do or try to learn from that interaction. It's, you know, it's something that sadly we see and people want to shout their opinions.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And then it's become this, if you have a different opinion than me, I just, I don't like you.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Instead of the, well, why do you have this opinion? And let's try to figure this out. Maybe we both get to learn something out of this too. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I think there's something to be said, too, for it's it's it's a lot easier to like you said, the barrier of entry, that social awkwardness. I mean, I know that there's a lot of people that struggle with, you know, feeling like they're socially awkward. And in their minds, it's I can't go up and approach this stranger and start talking to them.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. So I really like that, that it is just an easier kind of barrier to entry. It's a little bit easier to put that virtual foot forward to start these relationships. It's low risk is a way to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. All right, we got to move on. As cool as I think this topic is, man, let's move on.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
All right. So, you know, we all grew up playing video games. I consider myself a very good problem solver. I know Ryan is too. He's awesome at just kind of analyzing something. What's wrong? How do I fix it? That kind of thing. And I actually attribute a lot of that to the fact that I grew up playing video games. Games are always presenting you with some sort of challenge.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
They're presenting you with a problem that you have to overcome, whether it's a boss fight or a level or any number of things there. But, you know, and I think we see that, you know, in an age where kids grow up playing Minecraft nowadays, that was the first game that like my kids actually played. Because as again, as a parent, I kind of went, there's value to this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Like they have to learn how to think they have to solve these problems. And, you know, I do feel like there is a good tangible benefit here. And, you know, it's one of those things that makes me curious, right? Because Back in my day, as the old man, there was the big thinking, well, video games are going to rot your brain. And that was a common saying.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And I had friends who weren't allowed to play video games because that's exactly what their parents thought, is, oh, those will rot your brain. And I know that this is something that you have looked into specifically because I know you actually kind of broached this subject in your book. So like the question is, do video games make us smarter?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Do they help with problem solving or is there maybe a little bit of that? Yeah, they can rot your brain.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
The psychology of gaming is a fascinating and oftenly debated subject, and that's what we're diving into on today's episode. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he still refuses to try Path of Exile 2, and if a game involves dodge rolling, he's instantly skeptical. Maybe today we'll find out why he's so weird.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I grew up playing Zork. I mean, honestly, I attribute playing these text based games to helping me learn how to read.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that because it's one of those things where, again, just kind of a real world example is, you know, I'm getting older. My reflexes aren't what they used to be. You know, my ability to, you know, play a fast paced first person shooter and have really good aim is not what it was 10 years ago. but I kind of, I call it like battlefield awareness.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Like I can kind of see when that person off in the distance is low on health and this guy's running off behind this pillar to try to regenerate health. And it's like, I'm better at that now than I am at like the clicking heads really, really fast and quickly and things like that. And so I think there, there definitely is that like, Almost like you said, like training or reinforcement.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Right. So you hear that, Ryan? We're getting better at game sense as we go. I love it. Oh, man, this is awesome. So listen, we're running out of time here, Jamie. But as we wrap things up, I we always love this too. Is there a game that is coming up that is just got you super hyped is at the top of your your meter is like, I can't wait to play this game.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Is there anything in the on the horizon for you there?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
People have heard me tell the story of going to Aladdin's Castle in my mall. And man, we literally just did an episode on the... it was kind of nostalgia based in arcades. It was one of those things where it's like things that just don't exist anymore in gaming and arcades were one of those, uh, slap that corner on the, on the top, right.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
weapons classes i know yeah i play a warrior in path of exile too i'm level 80 ish somewhere around there i'm pretty much at the end game for that and it's like but there's no axes there's no swords yet like there's there's all this stuff and so i'm i'm very excited for the future of that game as well uh alas ryan will never know maybe one day it's it's early access still what do you mean i got plenty of time
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
It'll be free to play too when it comes out. It is free to play. I know. So awesome. Jamie, thank you so much. Again, I just want to remind people about your books, Getting Gamers, The Psychology of Video Games and Their Impact on the People Who Play Them. That sounds fascinating to me. I actually really want to check that one out.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
The Engagement Game, Why Your Workplace Should Look More Like a Video Game. So any business people out there that run a business, you should absolutely check that one out. And then your newest one, The Psychology of Dungeons and Dragons. Again, I know we have a lot of fans of Dungeons and Dragons, myself included. So I think that is a fascinating read as well.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And then also your podcast, which is The Psychology of Games podcast as well. Jamie, what's the best place if people want to pick up these books? What's the best place to point them towards? I'm going to put a link in the episode description to make life easy for them. But is there a best place for them to check these out or to purchase these?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jamie. Again, a link is going to be to your website in the episode description.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
This, this was an absolute blast, Jamie. Thank you so much for coming on the show with us. I mean, what a cool insight into just some aspects that I don't think gamers really, you know, like think about, I think we kind of feel some of these things, you know, as, as gamers, but it's really been really neat to kind of get an inside look on that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So we absolutely appreciate you lending your expertise. Um, And just coming to hanging out with us, man. We're going to have to get you in that Marvel Rivals night because that would be awesome. So we'll definitely touch base on that as well. So that is it for this episode. Thank you for tuning in. Remember to follow the podcast in your podcast app. Click the follow button. Click the plus button.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Don't forget to rate us five stars and leave a review if you enjoyed this as well. Make sure you go check out Jamie's website. That's it for this one. Until next time, happy gaming.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. I've told the story of the, uh, dark shady corner of my local seven 11, uh, putting more money into street fighter too, than I can remember as a kid. So, uh,
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Oh, my God. Anywhere that had one. It was great. If they had an arcade machine that you could walk to, you were like, dude, I just found 50 cents. I know where I'm going. Let's go.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
wherever it's at you're you're in good company jamie because i think you and i are probably pretty close in age ryan a little bit younger but uh he he caught the tail end of the uh the arcade craze there as well so yeah so it's just kind of a pastime and a habit that i never gave up i just kind of clung on to it to one degree or another and until like earlier today like right before we recorded yeah there you go
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So what are some of your favorite games that you've played recently? You and I kind of had a little conversation over email, and I'm not going to lie, I kind of nerded out with you over some of your favorite games. But for our listeners, what are some of your favorites?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Do you have a favorite character in Rivals?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah, I was a tank player in Overwatch, and I just can't do it in Rivals for some reason.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I never played Path of Exile at all, ever. I was familiar with it, but I was always a Diablo guy. Ryan is still a Diablo guy. Ryan, I just would like to point out the fact that there's another person that loves Path of Exile, too.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And then, uh, you did mention Elden Ring in there as well, right?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Okay, well, you beat it. The insanity one. Yeah, that's impressive in my book. So, awesome. And then it's funny because you did mention kind of a gamer blind spot to us when we were chatting. And it's one of those things that kind of made me realize that that's something I think that we all have.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And a lot of people in our community, especially some of the older gamers that we have, we hear this a lot where it's like, I used to love gaming. Then life kind of happened. I had kids. I had a family or a job or whatever. And now I'm back into it. And they kind of have this blind spot there. I know for myself, EverQuest, way back in the day, was my big blind spot. I got...
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
too far into EverQuest and played that game for years and years and years to the exclusion of all of the video games. Ryan, it was Destiny 2 for you?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. And then Jamie, you mentioned that you kind of have one where you, you feel like you missed a little gap in, in gaming for a little bit.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. But you like a challenge in games. Is that, I mean, with Elden Ring and Dark Souls and some of those, because we always talk about like, we call it Nintendo hard, like a Nintendo games. They were Nintendo hard games because they were really difficult. I mean, you know, these are some of the things that we grew up on and you kind of had no choice.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
You either just, you know, banged your head against this game 50 times because you had three lives to beat the whole thing or, you know, that was it. And I kind of credit a little bit of that like me liking difficult games and a challenge and that sort of thing to those days. But you, is it fair to say that you like challenging games?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
And joining us, he's got an actual PhD in psychology, has been a lifelong gamer. He's one of us and has made analyzing gamers, both his career and passion. It's the one, the only Jamie Madigan.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Yeah. So, you know, here's a good question for you, Jamie, is, you know, with being a lifelong gamer, you know, and getting into psychology, like, how did you get into psychology and what made you want to focus on gaming with it?
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
I worked for a major, I worked for progressive insurance for 16 years. So I am a little bit familiar with some of that mindset. We took personality tests and to even get employed, you have to pass a personality test and kind of, you know, they decide what type person you are and whether they think you'll be, you know, good for the company and stuff like that.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
So I think that touches on some of that. Maybe it does. Yeah.
Video Gamers Podcast
The Mind of a Gamer - Gaming Podcast
Oh, man. We are so pumped to have you, Jamie. Thank you so much for being here with us. Absolutely. Yeah. So just to give our listeners an introduction to you, Jamie, you do have a PhD in psychology. And not only that, but you have written several books about On this, one of them is getting gamers the psychology of video games and their impact on the people who play them.