Jamie Metzl

These systems have their own values.

And that's why I think, again, Tristan Harris, that just unleashing these algorithms against us and just saying algorithms are going to prioritize engagement

Even if we're turning people into zombies or even if we literally have had deaths of people who are agitated.

Oh, yeah.

AI psychosis is a real thing.

All these things.

So I just think that's why we can't just say, oh, let this play out.

We don't need governance.

We don't need regulation.

We don't need norms.

This is a societal transformation.

And I think that we all need to have a voice.

not on every little detail, but directionally.

And that's why I actually think it's quite positive that the issue of AI and accountability has really shifted.

I talked before about how it's been a little bit of a headache for me personally.

But when you think of the Trump administration, last February, J.D.

Vance went to Paris and there was a thing, it had been called the AI Safety Summit.

And he essentially said, America is out of the AI safety business, we're in the acceleration business.

And now anthropic mythos has come out and it turns out it has a lot of benefits and a lot of potential harms hacking all of these different systems.

Exactly right.