Jamie Wall

My question, though, is when you actually put all this out there, and as I said, it's very valid, what does rugby have to do now to unlock this?

I don't believe it's a tide that has just swept in and can't come back.

Yeah, because it's corroded over years.

Look, it's like the National Party support or something.

Once it starts corroding, you can't then try and rescue it down here.

You've got to step in here.

Arrest it somewhere.

That's right.

So how do they go about making it that this dream of being an All Black or this national sport of ours is still as relevant and valid to a young person growing up as it is?

See, I think the Olympic Games must be.

Look, that to me was a dream as a kid.

I don't know how many kids grow up these days and think, I want to go to the Olympics.

Do they think like that anymore?

That's it.

I would say.

That is actually really valuable.

That is another sport where if my kids were now growing up, I'd either put a golf club in their hands or a cricket bat and say, start hitting sixes over the fence and get yourself.

But then again, just on that, is that you're never going to get your son out there or your daughter out there and tell them to play test cricket, are you?

I've watched your podcast.

You talk about the brains, the young people that are leaving and going over there with master's degrees, with architect's degrees.