Jason Bordoff

So we looked for really opportunities to use less of that.

And I think depending on how long this goes on and how large the economic shock is, as we talked about earlier, it has the potential to be something that causes that sort of long lasting effect.

I think, again, and we don't know yet how long this conflict is going to go on, how severe it will be.

But as we were talking about earlier, the potential that we haven't seen anything yet with oil prices.

And if this goes on for weeks longer or if there's real damage that causes the infrastructure in the region to take years to repair.

This has the potential to be a kind of shock more like we saw in the 1970s than anything I've seen in the 25 or so years that I've been working in energy policy, geopolitics, national security issues.

And I think that would be a significant accelerant and frankly, a more powerful one.

I mean, although I would like climate change to be even a stronger concern for policymakers than it is.

If something is a national security issue and it's top of the agenda in the situation room, it's going to move policymakers in a way that the urgency of climate just doesn't today.

So you have the potential now for an even more powerful motivator to move toward electrified economy.

And you get a lot of that electricity from domestic sources for places like Europe.

That'll be renewables and nuclear in particular, which can move you in a lower carbon direction.

It is more complicated than that.

And I want to say coal.

For a lot of the world, a domestic source of pretty cheap, reliable energy, if you're going to try to say we want to be less dependent on imports, can also be coal.

And if you're in Indonesia or parts of Southeast Asia or other places, you know, you're seeing a lot of that.

So it doesn't always cut necessarily in one direction.

And the impact here is not just we want less fossil fuels, hence the comment about coal.

It's we want less interconnectedness.

We don't want to be exposed to these volatile global markets that are exposed to geopolitical risk.