Jason Horowitz

Hi, this is Jason Horowitz, the Rome Bureau Chief of the New York Times, and I'm here in St. Peter's Square. looking up at the roof of the Sistine Chapel where cardinals are inside voting on who the next pope should be.

Hi, this is Jason Horowitz, the Rome Bureau Chief of the New York Times, and I'm here in St. Peter's Square. looking up at the roof of the Sistine Chapel where cardinals are inside voting on who the next pope should be.

Like everybody else, I'm looking at a chimney surrounded by seagulls and trying to figure out if anything's coming out of it, and if it's smoke, if it's black smoke, they have an inconclusive vote, or if it is white smoke, which means we have a pope.

Like everybody else, I'm looking at a chimney surrounded by seagulls and trying to figure out if anything's coming out of it, and if it's smoke, if it's black smoke, they have an inconclusive vote, or if it is white smoke, which means we have a pope.

Yeah, we don't say it all the time, just when we get a pope.

Yeah, we don't say it all the time, just when we get a pope.

Yeah, it happened really quickly. It was the second day. A lot of people thought we were going to be in a long conclave. It seemed like they had a lot of new cardinals who needed to get to know each other and wasn't very clear how long they would be in there.

Yeah, it happened really quickly. It was the second day. A lot of people thought we were going to be in a long conclave. It seemed like they had a lot of new cardinals who needed to get to know each other and wasn't very clear how long they would be in there.

The idea was that if it was as quick as it was, as it's been actually pretty often going back to the 1930s, it would be someone who was a frontrunner, someone we had been hearing a lot about. And that's not exactly how it shook out.

The idea was that if it was as quick as it was, as it's been actually pretty often going back to the 1930s, it would be someone who was a frontrunner, someone we had been hearing a lot about. And that's not exactly how it shook out.

Yeah, I think that that dynamic was at play in the conclave. But I also think that there was something else going on. I think that the cardinals saw all these people come to Francis's funeral. I think that they realized that they had had a pope who for 12 years really put the Catholic Church on the world stage. I think that they started thinking, do we really want... a bureaucrat?

Yeah, I think that that dynamic was at play in the conclave. But I also think that there was something else going on. I think that the cardinals saw all these people come to Francis's funeral. I think that they realized that they had had a pope who for 12 years really put the Catholic Church on the world stage. I think that they started thinking, do we really want... a bureaucrat?

Do we really want someone who might suck the air out of this? And don't we really want, and this was what was most important to Francis, maybe a pastor, the pastor to guide the church and whether it be a priest in the parish, a bishop in a city, or as it turns out, maybe a Pope in Rome.

Do we really want someone who might suck the air out of this? And don't we really want, and this was what was most important to Francis, maybe a pastor, the pastor to guide the church and whether it be a priest in the parish, a bishop in a city, or as it turns out, maybe a Pope in Rome.

Well, full disclosure, we sort of know nothing because in a way it's the I like to think of it as sort of the most beautifully frescoed black box in the world. The Sistine Chapel, when the cardinals go in there to elect the pope, we don't know what the dynamics really are. We don't know what the votes are.

Well, full disclosure, we sort of know nothing because in a way it's the I like to think of it as sort of the most beautifully frescoed black box in the world. The Sistine Chapel, when the cardinals go in there to elect the pope, we don't know what the dynamics really are. We don't know what the votes are.

Yeah, so the cardinals basically go into the Sistine Chapel and they take an oath of absolute secrecy. And at a certain point, the doors close after one of the prelates says, Ex Domnus, everybody out. And everyone who's not a voting cardinal, you know, whether it be members of the choir or bishops, everybody starts filing out and the doors close.

Yeah, so the cardinals basically go into the Sistine Chapel and they take an oath of absolute secrecy. And at a certain point, the doors close after one of the prelates says, Ex Domnus, everybody out. And everyone who's not a voting cardinal, you know, whether it be members of the choir or bishops, everybody starts filing out and the doors close.

So as 133 voting cardinals entered into the Sistine Chapel, there were two guys who didn't make it in because they weren't feeling well.

So as 133 voting cardinals entered into the Sistine Chapel, there were two guys who didn't make it in because they weren't feeling well.