Jason Horowitz

I think that he does something that's really important, which is he sort of changes the priorities or the idea of what the Catholic Church is around for. And that, I think, was the thing that was most important to him. And his supporters would argue that he did a pretty good job of changing priorities.

I think that he does something that's really important, which is he sort of changes the priorities or the idea of what the Catholic Church is around for. And that, I think, was the thing that was most important to him. And his supporters would argue that he did a pretty good job of changing priorities.

people's minds or at least some people's minds about what the church is here for and it's pretty simple his idea of the church was just it's full of priests and nuns and all these people institution who are there for people and to bring the faith closer to the people and everything else is sort of a distraction and that seems really basic but

people's minds or at least some people's minds about what the church is here for and it's pretty simple his idea of the church was just it's full of priests and nuns and all these people institution who are there for people and to bring the faith closer to the people and everything else is sort of a distraction and that seems really basic but

He would argue, I think that, yeah, it's basic and that's not what we were doing. For decades, we were so obsessed with how we dressed and which way we faced when we said this prayer and what prayer we said that we forgot what we were here for. And so I think what his entire pontificate was really about was reminding people why the church exists in his view.

He would argue, I think that, yeah, it's basic and that's not what we were doing. For decades, we were so obsessed with how we dressed and which way we faced when we said this prayer and what prayer we said that we forgot what we were here for. And so I think what his entire pontificate was really about was reminding people why the church exists in his view.

And it's a big ship, the Catholic Church, right? It's 1.3 billion people. It's been around for 2,000 years. It's not easy to make big changes. There's an enormous bureaucracy that tries to stop change. But I think that he moved things around. enough that it's very hard to say he did nothing. He also opened up debates, which is something that now people forget.

And it's a big ship, the Catholic Church, right? It's 1.3 billion people. It's been around for 2,000 years. It's not easy to make big changes. There's an enormous bureaucracy that tries to stop change. But I think that he moved things around. enough that it's very hard to say he did nothing. He also opened up debates, which is something that now people forget.

There were things you could not talk about. And more, do you remember when I said that within the church personnel as policy? Well, Francis named a lot of new cardinals and a lot of new bishops. And those people tend to see the church the way that Francis does.

There were things you could not talk about. And more, do you remember when I said that within the church personnel as policy? Well, Francis named a lot of new cardinals and a lot of new bishops. And those people tend to see the church the way that Francis does.

Which means that going forward in the future, the people picking the next pope within a couple of weeks are going to be people who see the church more like Francis does, who probably want more of a pastor than someone who's going to be defending doctrine and rules.

Which means that going forward in the future, the people picking the next pope within a couple of weeks are going to be people who see the church more like Francis does, who probably want more of a pastor than someone who's going to be defending doctrine and rules.

Yeah, I think what Francis ultimately decided is that he was not going to be the guy who was going to make the change, but he was going to create the circumstances, the ability to discuss things, but also the personnel, the actual people who might be more willing, even than he was, to make the actual changes. So, I mean, when people look back now at Francis, was it a revolution that he led?

Yeah, I think what Francis ultimately decided is that he was not going to be the guy who was going to make the change, but he was going to create the circumstances, the ability to discuss things, but also the personnel, the actual people who might be more willing, even than he was, to make the actual changes. So, I mean, when people look back now at Francis, was it a revolution that he led?

Maybe not, but I think it's very hard to argue that he didn't make a big change within the Catholic Church.

Maybe not, but I think it's very hard to argue that he didn't make a big change within the Catholic Church.

Thank you.

Thank you.