Jeff Thornburg

door hatches blowing off or submarines failing when they shouldn't have been designed the way they were or whatever, that's a failure in leadership.

And so I think you're still going to have failures, and I'm just saying let's avoid the failure in leadership piece of that.

That's right.

Because people just want to get to the end.

That's a failure in system engineering, in my opinion.

Because you didn't have an adequate test program.

We're talking about NASA.

This is system engineering haven.

Am I right there?

I mean, I've seen evidence in the shuttle program that they had very robust system engineering back in that time frame.

Okay, in the 80s.

Maybe NASA didn't equivalently apply it all over the different...

centers and programs, but there is no better price for systems engineering execution than NASA.

It's a failure of imagination to be like, should we test these systems before they fly maybe?

What's up with that?

That's hilarious.

That's such a classic story, and true.

What's up with that is we've carried mixed units in the United States for way too long.

I'm not going to make excuses.

That's right, you better not.