Jeff Walton

Nobody wants to touch it.

Now you look at these alternative instruments.

These are credit instruments.

I'm holding it for cash flow.

I'm holding it for yield.

Yet I don't have a principal repayment.

That's true.

This is a hybrid equity instrument.

But what's the purpose of holding it?

Is the purpose of holding it for the yield and the payment over time?

Or is the purpose of the instrument holding it for the principal repayment at the end of a period?

Right.

And, and you start to think about, you have to, you have to put these things on the same playing field.

You have to compare the credit instruments in the credit market and you got to go look at the risk profile of those and you got to go compare the credit, this credit.

Like how do you, how do you put them together?

And from my analysis, having the assets on the balance sheet, thinking about underwriting a long-term trajectory of an asset, that is a significantly more compelling risk return profile than any other traditional credit.

And then liquidity.

Let's talk about liquidity for a moment.

These instruments are incredibly liquid.

The JP Morgan Perpetual Preferred Instrument trades $2 million a day.