Jefferson Cowie

Well, most ex-presidents disappear, right? And he becomes, as you say, a great humanitarian, a great principled leader. And probably the only analogy would be John Quincy Adams, another one-term president who becomes a great abolitionist. But other than that, most of them kind of fade away.

Well, most ex-presidents disappear, right? And he becomes, as you say, a great humanitarian, a great principled leader. And probably the only analogy would be John Quincy Adams, another one-term president who becomes a great abolitionist. But other than that, most of them kind of fade away.

Yeah, and I think he was more driven by interest in power than maybe some of us want to believe. But ultimately, I don't think that's why he did what he did. I actually think he thought he could bring a sort of moral core back to the leadership of the United States of America. And he did outside the presidency.

Yeah, and I think he was more driven by interest in power than maybe some of us want to believe. But ultimately, I don't think that's why he did what he did. I actually think he thought he could bring a sort of moral core back to the leadership of the United States of America. And he did outside the presidency.

Yeah, and I think he was more driven by interest in power than maybe some of us want to believe. But ultimately, I don't think that's why he did what he did. I actually think he thought he could bring a sort of moral core back to the leadership of the United States of America. And he did outside the presidency.

Thanks very much, and it was great talking to you.

Thanks very much, and it was great talking to you.

Thanks very much, and it was great talking to you.