Jennifer Swann

I mean, it even made me think of like Marilyn Manson doing this kind of like stunt stuff and like, you know, cutting his skin with glass and like stuff that like when I was a kid and like seeing him on MTV and stuff like it was kind of chilling.

And I think like, obviously, like, you know, he fought back against censorship and all of this backlash that was like at the time felt really unwarranted.

And it is that slippery slope about censorship where you're like, let the man be an artist.

And then we come to find out that he's.

yeah also a rapist like has this whole dark thing going on so it is this question of like yeah is this their persona the art from the artist like all of the stuff that we're still grappling with with like yeah michael jackson movie all this stuff that's why kids should only be listening to ska music i think none of this emo shit it's just got to be upbeat you know it's safe yeah everyone should just be skanking that's right in person internet we should just everyone should be listening to the digimon the movie soundtrack yeah and just leave it at that

Yeah, especially when one of those people is famous and has all this money all of a sudden and is suddenly in this different stratosphere than everyone else that they're interacting with.

Even if they're the same age, it creates this crazy power imbalance where people just want to be close to that person.

I think this idea, too, of we've moved past the hysteria around morbid lyrics or shocking stuff on stage, I think a lot of that also contributed to his fans' denial in the beginning because a lot of them were like,

He couldn't be so stupid that he would actually sing about doing this thing.

Like we have to give him more credit than that.

Like it just it felt like too shallow of an explanation or it felt almost like insulting because it was so like on the nose.

And so I think like that also made people defend him because it's like, yeah, we should we should give people the benefit of doubt that like this is their art and they're not like singing about every single thing they've ever done in their lives.

Also, and yeah, rare exception.

Sorry to interrupt, but his management also rented his house, like his mansion in the Hollywood Hills that Celeste was allegedly living with him in.

That was rented by his management.

He wasn't even on the lease.

The landlord didn't know he was living there.

The management was very involved in his life, again, because this is a pretty sheltered, homeschooled kid who grew up in the suburbs, doesn't really know how to live on his own.

So you have to imagine there's like...

Yeah, and they all saw him as a cash cow.