Jennifer Williams

Yeah.

And did you, I mean, I don't want to get too far away from the portrait, but I feel like, out of my own curiosity, it will go unsatisfied if I don't ask this.

How did you end up there?

Because actually, thinking about it, it seems somehow like one of those things you could ask someone and they might have an answer.

But actually, if you asked anyone why or how they ended up doing the thing they do, it would probably be just as difficult for most people to... You know, a complex and complicated accumulation of so many different...

decisions and choices and experiences.

A bit like what we were saying about how poems come out, you know, that end up with you being in a particular place.

I have to wonder, I mean, I'm glad I'm here in Scotland, but grew up in New Jersey, studied in Boston, my sister lives in Hawaii, and I ended up in Scotland.

Absolutely.

Maybe we can read this next one because I think it's interesting and it leads on to some other ideas.

And it's full of, I mean, yeah, formally it feels different than some of these other poems, you know, that one long line, but also the, it's a bit longer and the... Which is true of the second book too.

Do you, I feel like I know the answer, but I'm just curious to hear you talk about it.

Do you think there is anything that can't go into a poem?

And also, I think it's so clear in these poems that there's a, first of all, there's a kind of bravery in the honesty of looking at this experience, even though it is

very dark and scary and painful, but also that there is a beauty that can be drawn out of this as well.

And I think that that is what can sound really horrible, that there can be beauty in

that which is at the same time pain and horror and violence.

I was talking to, we did an interview earlier today with the poet Tanya Shirley from Jamaica, who's here, and she'll be reading also at Stenza in a few days.

I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, great.