Jennifer Williams

Maybe we can read this next one because I think it's interesting and it leads on to some other ideas.

And it's full of, I mean, yeah, formally it feels different than some of these other poems, you know, that one long line, but also the, it's a bit longer and the... Which is true of the second book too.

Do you, I feel like I know the answer, but I'm just curious to hear you talk about it.

Do you think there is anything that can't go into a poem?

And also, I think it's so clear in these poems that there's a, first of all, there's a kind of bravery in the honesty of looking at this experience, even though it is

very dark and scary and painful, but also that there is a beauty that can be drawn out of this as well.

And I think that that is what can sound really horrible, that there can be beauty in

that which is at the same time pain and horror and violence.

I was talking to, we did an interview earlier today with the poet Tanya Shirley from Jamaica, who's here, and she'll be reading also at Stenza in a few days.

I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, great.

But we were talking a little bit, because she...

maybe in a not too dissimilar way has lots of poems that are both about her personal experience but also are able to comment on the political state of where she comes from not in an overt way but maybe via the personal and we were talking about that thing like can a poem

can a poem be a vehicle for change or should a poet even think about it in that way?

And that, you know, on the one hand she would say, well, she doesn't think, you know, she might feel a bit disappointed if she was writing all her poems thinking it would start some sort of revelation.

But at the same time that there is...

you know, if even one person learns something, or I think she, you know, maybe learns something even is too much to say, but is opened up to an experience that helps them understand the world in a different way, that that's really valuable.

That feels like something poems actually are really good at doing.

Brian, it's been such an honour and a pleasure to get to speak with you this afternoon.

Thank you so much for taking the time.