Jenny Du

In a way, it's not about me or us and our beautiful ideas.

It is about the why we want to do it and who else is it for, and knowing that there will be benefits to many other people if we can find a way to get it right.

I love how your career has been on like disrupting the status quo, kind of breaking the structures down.

You did it at Kickstarter and now with your new artist corporation structure, like let's just like take it back almost.

Why has it been important to

shake the institutions and it's like normal ways of working.

Well, I feel like that, I mean, they say like, let's say in school and you're really expected to conform to this pretty set framework of what like a good student looks like.

And then unfortunately schools just sort of like be a robot, repeat these things back to me.

And then it's, I think there's sort of a belief that the ones that are a little bit not the right, that don't fit.

or stand out or even almost like struggle in that environment will be, you know, almost like nurtured in the right way.

The folks who will make the greatest change at some point later on, it's just more that in this time and place that wasn't the right time and place.

Yeah.

So it started with hearing a fact for the first time that a third of the food that we produce worldwide is lost or wasted before it ever has a chance to be eaten.

That was an FAO report, the UN Food and Agriculture Organization in 2012.

And our founder, James Rogers, heard that and was just sort of like,

wait, what?

And sometimes you hear something that you can't unhear.

And I think especially quite close to us because where we're located in Santa Barbara, California, we're surrounded by

these fruits and vegetable fields, especially if you're driving between where we are and you head up into Northern California.

And it's pretty crazy suddenly to have it in front of you to see this food that we're growing.

And then just almost like, well, imagine just, especially for fruits and vegetables, like take half of it off the plate.

And you're sort of like, this can't be possible.

We're in the 21st century.

This is the best we can do, kind of.

So I would just treat it as like the thing you can't unhear.

And then it sits with you and it sort of nags at you for a while.

And then...

you feel compelled, like what can we do about that?

What do we, what can we uniquely contribute even to maybe trying to figure that out?

So then as material scientists, chemists, engineers, it was like, just then starting to ask some really basic questions like, why is there food waste?

How do plants decay or spoil today?

How do they protect themselves?

What does that mean?

So it's just like really probably the benefit of a beginner's lens or mind on this because we don't come from food or agriculture.

And so almost and hopefully not being trapped by

of being blinded by the things that are immediately in front of us, but you lose track of and you just accept how they are.

So anyways, that's how we got started and I'm really kind of grateful for that journey.

It blends all these things that we talked about at the very beginning.

It's like, I love science and engineering, so we have a technical problem.

I want to put that towards something I would deem as like meaningful and impactful use.

And so

helping especially healthy foods last longer that which I wish all of us were eating more of, you know, for our own kind of health and benefit, like all those things and laddered up so well.

So it was sort of like, I don't know if this is going to work, but it sure seems like worth trying.

Yeah.

And how about for you then, like, you know, call it the spark or a fundamental, um,

um, core issue that you were trying to unpack?

Love it.

Maybe that goes back to a little bit your previous question, almost like why do I identify as a scientist?

Why do I love science?

And it had always been, and I'm sure just positive influences from different places in my life, it was like, how do you do something that's

like doing good, wanting to spend like our time, all of our, we're all here on borrowed time, you know, our time is finite.

And so how do you make the most of that?

And that has been at least for me to find ways to serve or do good, to elevate almost our collective quality of life if possible.

So I guess in the face of opposition, it's like,

the conviction I guess that is tested as to whether or not you know you kind of stay on the course I guess that you're on and I think thinking about like the knowing that there's like an entanglement of systems or incentives or whatever that's kind of got us all trapped and just don't accept those things as inevitable

and that it will take some kind of commitment to action.

And you've also maybe got a willing to do that

and know that it may not even be solved like in your lifetime, but that's the path that's worth walking.

Yeah.

If that makes sense.

So, um, and then I guess in that sense, it's helpful because in a way it's not about like me or us and our beautiful ideas.

It is about,

like the why we want to do it and who else is it for and knowing that there will be benefits to many other people if we can find a way to get it right.

So it's definitely

you know, a challenge of like resilience.

But we also know that, I mean, I think, you know, your own stories, you know, encountering the same kinds of things, like, so it's also inspiring though, to like meet other people.

Everyone's got their own version of,

the fight i guess and uh how do you not like the heart let the hard days win kind of is actually really tapping into others who are on a journey of of their own um sharing their stories and just going like man like taking energy i think from that so i mean i think about like the you know what you shared at this ted this year with regards to this artist corporation i thought

To me, it's so impressive because when we work within certain bounds, you almost, as a common person, you work within legal bounds.

You've gone and you've created a whole new legal structure.

And so I have a bazillion questions about like where do you start?

Who do you need to convince?

What else needs to change in order to sort of like accommodate that?

And so like can somebody today go and actually register themselves or incorporate as an artist corporation?

But like that's such a perfect example of –

at least for me, as a rule follower.

But the laws are shaped in this way, and where is there really room to carve this out?

So I would love to take it from almost like us trying to figure out what's the resilience that you need to sort of walk through this, but actually hear your direct example of how did that, like what's the first two steps or something that you had to walk down?

Right.

And like, who's really going to like dive into that?

Who's going to care that much?

Who's going to possibly care that much?

Yeah.

Mostly, yes.

Probably depends a little bit on the day and that's okay.

It's almost learning to give myself some kind of like grace through that.

If you can look over a long enough period of time, it's almost like the things that matter, they kind of bubble back up to the surface, even if there's a time of disruption.

And maybe, again, maybe that's naive that in a way like what's good and right and really better for all of us prevails in the end.

But I guess fortunately there's been so many examples in history where that pendulum does kind of

Navigate its way back and forth, but it's never sort of at least to me.

I don't feel like it's sort of gone in one direction forever and ever and never been able to recalibrate or find its way back again, so That's kind of I think why I maintain a bit more of like an optimistic view is just that like if we look on a long enough time scale then enough of the right moments and

drivers start to kind of click together to create a critical mass or a moment that allows like change to come forward.

I don't know how else to describe it, but it's like what's at the root of all of our like malaise as a society that it can sometimes like devolve to such a state.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Thank you so much.

That was such a treat.

That was awesome.

Yeah.

Awesome.

When you pick a piece of fruit off a tree, it's like a ticking time bomb.

It's literally this living and breathing thing that's slowly cannibalizing its own stores of energy and nutrients, just trying to stay alive until it ultimately gets eaten by microbes or some other animal like us.

Have you ever wondered why that is and what could be done about it?

My journey in trying to figure that out started in the spring of 2013.

I'm finishing up my postdoctoral research in chemistry at the University of Santa Barbara, California, and all that really means is I'm a huge nerd and I've been in school for way too long.

And I'm trying to figure out how to put all that training to meaningful use.

So two of my lab mates, James Rogers and Luis Perez, invite me to dinner.

But it turns out to be a pitch disguised as dinner.

And they opened by totally flooring me with some staggering stats.

A third of the food that we produce worldwide is lost or wasted before it ever has a chance to be eaten.

For fresh fruits and vegetables, that number is a half.

And waste is a problem at every single step of the supply chain.

From the farm, trying to get it to market, in stores, restaurants and in our homes.

And it's not just a waste of the food, it's a waste of the land, water, fertilizers, labor, energy, fuel, packaging and money out of farmers and our pockets.

If global food waste was a country, it'd be the third highest emitter of greenhouse gases after China and the US.

For decades, all around the world, we've relied heavily on a surprisingly small number of ways to help fruits and vegetables last longer after harvest.

These have gotten us a really long way, but they also have their challenges.

Refrigeration is a massive energy suck, a significant source of emissions, and it's expensive.

It's unfortunately why a lot of places around the world don't have access to refrigeration.

Designer pesticides aren't great for our long-term health or the environment.

Waxes, some can be plant-based, but a lot of them are also animal-derived or petroleum-derived, and they help make produce look better, but not really meaningfully extend their life and quality.

And packaging, that's just adding to our problems with single-use plastics and microplastics.

And then all of this leads to a pretty narrow set of fruits and vegetables that are available in stores today relative to the amazing diversity of what's really out there.

And so it's really like the categories that can survive storage and transportation that are commonly available.

And those aren't always the ones that taste best or have the highest density of nutrients.

So my friends wanted to approach this differently.

And we led first with some questions.

How do plants protect themselves?

Well, with a peel.

Plants, just like us, have a skin or peel, technically called the plant cuticle, and that helps to protect them from moisture loss, oxidation and infection.

And what are those peels made of?

Fatty acids, glycerides.

That's what's the important part.

And these are ingredients found universally in all plants, in the peel, pulp and seeds, and including in plants that we already eat.

Different fruits have different shelf lives because of the thickness and arrangement of these materials in those peels.

So the idea then is, can we take these harmless, edible, plant-based ingredients, apply them in a thin layer on the surface of fresh fruits and vegetables to help reinforce the existing natural peel,

And if you do that, can you help to retain peak flavor, texture and nutrients for longer without reliance on refrigeration, pesticides, waxes or plastics?

And so that's what James Liu and I, that's why we founded Appeal Sciences and ultimately headed to James's garage to try and figure out.

We started first by partnering with a small local grower, and we tested the idea on this category you may not have heard of called finger limes.

They're literally finger-shaped, and when you cut them open, the pulp is in the shape of beads like caviar.

They are delicious, and they're super fragrant.

But once they're picked, that grower had maybe about seven days before their organic limes would start to dry out and the skin would start to change color, and that was even with refrigeration.

So we took a test batch of material that we made using leftover tomato peels, since those are rich in these fatty acids and glycerides.

We dipped those limes in a bowl of these ingredients in water and set them aside to dry.

And then we waited.

And we saw that we could add an extra week of freshness to these limes.

And when we saw that for the first time, we were like, shut the front door.

Oh my God, this might actually work.

So we then went and wanted to apply this little bit of extra peel to all other kinds of fruits and vegetables.

Bananas, avocados, limes, green beans, tomatoes, bell peppers, cucumbers, berries, like you name it.

And what we saw amazed and, quite frankly, still amazes us.

This concept works for dozens of categories.

Things that need to ripen before you eat them, things that don't, things that have edible peels, non-edible peels,

We even saw that with protected blueberries, we could retain vitamin C levels at higher levels for longer than unprotected blueberries.

And tomatoes could be harvested later, not when they were green and tasteless, but when they were red and actually ripe, and they'd still have enough time to get into your homes.

And we love that it really takes so little material.

The little bit of extra peel we add to an average avocado, for example, that's equivalent in weight to a tenth of a small raisin.

And even though these materials are, of course, edible, you can wash them off by just rubbing under running water.

We also, the more that we learned about the fresh produce supply chain today, we realized we could integrate into how these are processed in these packing houses before they're sent to grocery stores.

So thinking about replacing a standard waxing step, for example.

We've made good progress since those early days in the garage.

We've established a supply chain for responsibly sourced high-purity ingredients.

We've demonstrated safety and effectiveness to regulators in the US, the European Union and more than 40 additional countries around the world.

And while we're still relatively small and early in our journey, we have our presence in about 10 markets worldwide.

What I'm most proud of, though, it's why we got into all of this in the first place.

And that is that since 2021, when we started measuring, we've prevented 166 million pieces of produce from going to waste.

In doing that, that's avoided the emissions of more than 29,000 metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions, which is equivalent to planting 485,000 trees

and saved almost seven billion liters of water, or enough to fill 2,800 Olympic-sized swimming pools.

What we're also excited about is the opportunity to add a little extra peel to help small growers get their unique varieties of fruits and vegetables to market with more confidence.

This is especially important in places that don't have widespread or reliable access to refrigeration, like with these regional mango varieties.

This could mean that a greater diversity of fruits and vegetables could be more available to more people.

The work, though, is far from done.

We've unfortunately encountered food and agriculture companies that have a really hard time seeing past the food waste status quo.

Shrink, as it's called in the industry, it's just accepted as a normal part of doing business.

And disappointingly, we've had some folks, producers, packers and retailers, tell us,

Well, the waste bin is kind of my best friend.

The more that people throw away, the more they have to come back and buy again.

So let's just say that's not what we expected when we first approached them to talk about extending the life and quality of fresh products.

But

We can't change this thinking alone, and we're not a silver bullet to end food waste ourselves, but thankfully, there are lots of start-ups, scale-ups, organizations and individuals all around the world working to transform this post-harvest space.

And we're optimistic that our one small innovation, using common ingredients inspired by the ancient wisdom of plants,

playing its part in having an impact, reinventing the food system, and helping to create abundance for all.

Thanks so much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In your experience, maybe you have this too.

There's like a day, a day and a half when they're like perfect, like avocado toast cuttable before you're like, do I sacrifice them to guacamole?

Right.

And so take that day and a half and extend it to four days.

Like maybe you're actually going to have a chance to use it before you throw it away.

No, they're very neutral.

So no taste, no smell.

It's like a strange thing we do around the office, which is like eat the fruit, lick the surface, like confirm that.

But we've also done it with credible other institutions like universities doing these blind taste tests with strawberries.

And you can't tell that there's anything on them.