Jenny Friel
đ€ SpeakerAppearances Over Time
Podcast Appearances
Nuala, niin kauan ennen kuin olet nÀhnyt itseÀsi, mutta aikaisemmin me olimme yleisiÀ katsojia ja yleisiÀ ystÀviÀ. Hienoa nÀhdÀ sinut uudestaan, Jenni. Hienoa nÀhdÀ sinut. Se on ollut tehtÀvÀÀ muutama pÀivÀ sinulle, ajattelen. Olet ollut odottamassa tÀmÀn tutkimuksen jo jonkin aikaa. Olimme odottamassa sitÀ, ja oli melko paljon odottamista nÀhdÀ, kuinka kauan se menisi. Mutta minun mielestÀni raportti on niin pysyvÀÀ.
So obviously we went up to the north to interview you several times. You came across Creswell, first of all, because of Abby Lyle. I was a domestic abuse officer in the PSNI from roughly 2003 or 2004, and it was the majority of my service. I'm retired now.
jotka tarvitsivat sitÀ, mikÀ oli tarpeellista. Ja tÀmÀ raportti, minun tÀytyy vain kirjoittaa sen, olin kuullut sen, koska me emme enÀÀ tehdÀ tÀtÀ. Me kirjoitamme asioita, mutta se on yli 200 kertaa. Se on suuri. Ja ne menivÀt, mitÀ se tekee, on se, ettÀ se antaa meiltÀ blueprintin, ei vain siitÀ, miten kaikki meni vÀÀrin, mutta myös siitÀ, miten asiat voidaan parantaa.
Ja se oli mielenkiintoista minulle, mutta myös yksi asioita, joita tuli esiin, oli syrjintÀarvot, koska yksi koko Katie Simpsonin tapauksista yksinkertaisimmista asioista oli se, ettÀ kun hÀn tuli kylmÀÀn Abbeyn ajan jÀlkeen, kun hÀn tuli kylmÀÀn Abbeyn ajan jÀlkeen, kun hÀn tuli kylmÀÀn Abbeyn ajan jÀlkeen, kun hÀn tuli kylmÀÀn Abbeyn ajan jÀlkeen,
Harim, that was the word I think we were searching for yesterday. So what the report actually kind of goes back to Abby's case as well, and points out about the victim shaming. And one of the things I thought was interesting was, it said, by portraying Abby Lyle as emotionally unstable and prone to irrational behavior, he drew on familiar misogynistic stereotypes that have long been used to discredit women's experiences. Narratives such as the jealous girlfriend, the hysterical woman, or the unreliable victim statement.
Deeply embedded in societal attitudes underpin victim blaming, contributing to its prevalence maintenance as a systemic phenomenon. Misogyny was part of the reason that Cresswell's false narrative was so believable to police. Katie was portrayed as emotional, not herself, his poor girl. That all sounds familiar to you, obviously. All the domestic abuse offenders blame their victim. All of them. I've never sat in an interview room where one hasn't. It's always, do you know what she's like?
HÀn on tietysti Yhdysvaltain puolustusministeri. HÀn sanoi BBC-kysymykselle viikossa, ettÀ meidÀn on tÀrkeÀÀ tietÀÀ, ettÀ kun me menemme PSNI-kysymykseen huomioidaan todellista rikkoa tai kun me olemme vaikuttaneet, ettÀ he ottaa nÀmÀ huolet todellisesti. Ja ettÀ he ovat ymmÀrrettyjÀ yksityiskohtaisesta biasista, jota on organisaatioissa, joka on suurin piirtein mies. Onko tÀmÀ sinulle tÀrkeÀÀ?
Which would also lead to that behavior not being addressed the way it should be. Okay. Because that's your community. And because there were things that like, you know, that there have been studies done, you know, previously. And one of the ones that the review mentions is the perfect murder and exploratory study of staged murder scenes and concealed femicide. So that was written by Yffat, Bitten and Hava Dayen in 2020. So that's
identified six recurring indicators in cases where homicide is deliberately disguised as suicide in intimate partner relationships. Now, I suppose we didn't know, well, certainly the PSNI weren't aware of an intimate relationship with Katie at this stage. So the victim is in apparent good health. The death was presented as suicide. The victim had recently tried to end the relationship. The perpetrator had a history of domestic violence. The victim was found in her own home. The victim was discovered by the perpetrator.
Katie's case, the review says, contained all six of these indicators. She was young, physically fit, in good health and happy. And at the time of her death, she had started a new relationship, which we discussed in Groomed, the podcast. She had been trying to distance herself from Jonathan Creswell. There was a documented history of coercive control, manipulation and physical violence. Katie was found in her own home, discovered by Creswell,
As the sole adult witness, he appeared to police to be grief-stricken and cooperative, taking control of the narrative. He blamed Katie for her own death. And the fact that the police took him at face value empowered him, allowed him to deflect suspicion, manipulate the direction of the investigation, and continue to exert his control over Katie and his family. It's hindsight, I know, but still.
One of the more disturbing ones as well was that the ombudsman for the police of Northern Ireland, the interviews relating to this case include references to Jonathan Craswell as a bad boy or philanderer, rather than acknowledging him as a violent perpetrator.
The choice of language trivializes male aggression, dismissing harmful behavior and ultimately protects male perpetrators, simultaneously undermining the credibility of female victims. It reflects Cresswell's use of misogynistic language towards his victims, normalizing male entitlement and minimizing the seriousness of violence against women. Were you aware that he had been kind of called those things? No, I wasn't. That must really annoy you.
I had lots of questions around that. That's so bizarre to me. What the report also does, it kind of sets out, as I mentioned the word before as well, blueprint. But you must have recognized so much of this. Is it the first time that you've seen it all laying out like that? Is that how helpful? It's the first report of its kind in Northern Ireland. My problem with it is, and it has been since I first became aware of this case,
I don't know. I don't know. She is mentioned in the report, not named as such, but she is mentioned in the sense that she is a journalist who has gone to the police with concerns, as was Paul Lusby. Paul Lusby, who is a distant relation of Creswell's. He's aware of the situation because Creswell went to live with his birth father, Lusby. They're cousins, you think? It's not?
Toisinaan toisinaan, kyllÀ. HÀn tietÀÀ, ettÀ kun Creswell oli Herbie Lusbyn vanhempansa kanssa, hÀn oli nÀhnyt naisia ja oli huolta siitÀ, joten hÀn ei ollut vain ostamassa Creswellin asioita. HÀn meni poliisiin useissa tapauksissa, mutta hÀn oli kertonut, ettÀ koska hÀn ei ole suuri yhteistyö, he eivÀt oikeastaan saa nÀitÀ rajoituksia todella tÀrkeÀnÀ. Ja silti jÀrjestelmÀssÀ se on poistunut.
Ja sitten tietysti tutkimus mainitsi tÀmÀn, ja me tiedÀmme, ettÀ Pauli otti omaa elÀmÀÀnsÀ, ja ettÀ hÀnen isÀnsÀ olisi sanonut, ettÀ hÀn tuntui mahtavasti kÀrsivÀn ja stressin jÀlkeen, siksi, ettÀ Cresswellin liikkuu hÀnelle. Me emme tiedÀ varmasti, miksi hÀn otti omaa elÀmÀÀnsÀ, mutta todennÀköisesti hÀn uskoi, ettÀ hÀn oli... Ja poliittinen tehtÀvÀ, ja hÀn ei saanut mitÀÀn. Ja tÀmÀ on mies, joka raportoi omasta perheestÀÀn. KyllÀ.
ĂlĂ€ vain anna heitĂ€ ylös ja mennĂ€ lĂ€pi. ĂlĂ€ koskaan tehdĂ€ sitĂ€. Ja taas tĂ€mĂ€ todella selkeĂ€ raportti. Se kĂ€sittelee ympĂ€ristöÀ, ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristöÀ. He sanovat, ettĂ€ hĂ€nen ymmĂ€rryksensĂ€ ja vĂ€lineensĂ€ oli pysĂ€htynyt ympĂ€ristöön. HĂ€n kĂ€ytti ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön ympĂ€ristön.
Ja tÀmÀ on asia, eikö? Koska hÀn oli kahdeksan. Ja sinÀ mainitsit, kuinka kaunista oli oppia kaikki tÀllaista Katien kautta raportissa. HÀn oli kahdeksan, kun hÀn alkoi mennÀ siihen koulun.
TÀssÀ tutkimuksessa oli muutamia suosituksia. TÀmÀ kulttuuri nÀkemystÀ, mutta ei uskoa, aloitti Cresswellin toimintaa jatkuvasti. EikÀ kukaan huomioi hÀnen huolimattomuutostaan, ennen Katien kuolemista. TÀmÀ tarkoittaa tarkemmin turvallisuuden reformointia ja kulttuurista huolimattomuutta kaikkien ympÀristöjen ympÀristöissÀ. Ei ollut turvallisuusmahdollisuuksia taustalla. Jonathan Cresswell ei pitÀnyt tÀyttÀÀ Northern Ireland Checkin, eikÀ tehtÀvÀ turvallisuusmahdollisuuden harjoituksia.