Jenny Karavolos

Fraud is a significant problem.

I mean, I don't need to repeat or come up with different statistics to Minister Butler.

He has indicated, I mean, and this is a telltale sign, that it has been a focus for criminal activity and fraudulent activity by not all providers, but some providers.

But again, government is openly now saying that those critical controls and systems haven't been in place.

The gates have been open and it's time to close them.

So we absolutely agree.

But what I am going to say is...

We're expecting that it is the systems that are being controlled and not individuals.

The NDIS was set up about choice and control.

We cannot lose that as a fundamental principle to people.

That is what equity is about.

That is what rights are about.

I have absolute confidence if the disability representative organisations and other support organisations across researchers, educators, lived experience are all working together to being part of the solutions, testing the assumptions and actually doing trials.

If we do great system testing and ensure we're clear on the outcomes and measuring them along the way, it'll happen.

If we do reform the way that's been done in the past, where we start making the changes before the system is ready, then all we've done is created a problem and it will reveal itself in other systems instead.

Thank you.