Jesse Michels

And then what's really crazy is in the back room, while this is going on, while we're trying to figure out theoretically,

what's happening with gravity.

And by the way, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Wright Airfield, which is center of all the UFO lore, they're also, they have a theoretical physics group looking into anti-gravity.

This whole era in the 50s is obsessed with anti-gravity.

While they're theoretically looking at it, you have Agnew-Bonson, the Institute of Field Physics, North Carolina, the same exact group

funding this guy named townsend brown doing experiments around anti-gravity and you have video of townsend brown in the lab popping champagne ostensibly because he got a positive result around these anti-gravity experiments

And a year before that, you have him doing similar experiments in a vacuum chamber.

It was called the Montgolfier Project in 1956.

And you have a French technical representative named Jacques Cornillon.

We have him on audio on his deathbed saying that the experiments worked.

And you have Agnew Bonson himself saying very weird things happen at high megavolts across short distances.

And what he's talking about is essentially Townsend Brown's work.

That was what he did.

It was these capacitor experiments, high voltage experiments.

low current, short distances.

And so you have this, you get into these, and then, I mean, you go on for so long about this, like the current electrostatics lead scientist at NASA, or the guy that just left, he was the electrostatics lead at NASA for decades.

His name is Charles Bueller, just left to start a propellantless propulsion program, a company called Exodus Space,

And he claims that it's based on Townsend Brown's work.

So you have all this like smoke after that, you know, in the 50s, that like Townsend Brown's stuff probably worked.

So then you get into this like really interesting philosophical, you know, kind of question of...