Jesse Michels

Do you think at any point in time, some of the mind control stuff we discussed earlier was like aliens were used as sort of some sort of smoke screen for that?

Like it was like there's a book called Controllers by a guy named Martin Cannon, and he talks about MK Ultra, but then the air MK often and how there are implants involved in some of these things and how.

they would shade people's experiences to make them think that they were alien and to be honest it's kind of a slim poorly researched book that doesn't for me explain everything neatly at all but uh yeah what's your what's your take i think that that may occur i think that mk ultra might might do that sometimes but i think that the vast majority of the um

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many cases that I also encounter where I'm like, you just can't explain that with, you know, human prosaic tech.

I do find it interesting.

You were at UCLA in the 80s.

Yeah.

You know who was head of the UCLA psychiatry department at that time, are you aware?

This guy named Jolly West.

Did you ever interact with him at all?

No, no.

He was like a head honcho in the MKUltra stuff.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

He might have.

Yeah.

I don't know, but definitely a spooky, not great guy.

I think he got in trouble for, like, dosing up an elephant with a ridiculous amount of LSD, and then the elephant died, and he's on record.