Jesse Michels

It's a good crossover there.

It's a great crossover because he actually shows how a lot of the magic's done, and he debunks a lot of magic.

So a lot of magicians kind of hate on him because they're like, don't show the special sauce or whatever.

And he's extremely good when it comes to debunking stagecraft.

And in fact, he took me to a magic conference with some of his top magician friends, like the guy that has worked with David Blaine for 20 years.

These guys are...

like to me, they're like literal magicians.

And he would consistently be like, no, this is, you know, he wouldn't show me the method.

Cause that's like not how you're not supposed to do that in magic, but he'd basically be like, there's a method here.

There's a method there.

There's a, you know, and like he would do that a little too much on his channel.

And so he'd get in trouble on that, but he was always kind of a UFO freak.

And so that got him into, um, uh, starting area 52, which is this channel.

And he, he does this whole deep dive on Travis Walton.

And

does a long interview with him.

And he's just one of these guys who's like consistent in his story since that time.

He also went on Rogan and, you know, just continuously sort of tells the same story.

And it's one of these archetypal stories where the person is sort of operated on, you know, he's on this sort of, you know, operating table.

And it's really strange.