Jessica Hancock

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And then after that, of course, we had the process of getting the art and then the prototype versions of it and then playtesting it at conventions. And, you know, there's a whole load of stuff that then takes place, which is all fun. None of which I've been involved with, I've got to say. The art design, I think, is amazing, but I can't take credit for it.

Yeah, yeah. And then after that, of course, we had the process of getting the art and then the prototype versions of it and then playtesting it at conventions. And, you know, there's a whole load of stuff that then takes place, which is all fun. None of which I've been involved with, I've got to say. The art design, I think, is amazing, but I can't take credit for it.

That's lovely.

That's lovely.

Can't... Yeah, yeah. Couldn't tell you I was any happier. I think graphic designers... Graphic designers are some of the most amazing people in the world. And they're so important, just getting these things. Whether it's a book or a card game or whatever it is, it's so important.

Can't... Yeah, yeah. Couldn't tell you I was any happier. I think graphic designers... Graphic designers are some of the most amazing people in the world. And they're so important, just getting these things. Whether it's a book or a card game or whatever it is, it's so important.

It took it to a different level.

It took it to a different level.

totally different skills so yeah so that's been really interesting for me and it's one of those things i think you get to a point where you're too close to see it and you have to put it out to other people to feedback and things so yeah so that's yeah you need to give it to people who don't already know how to play the game yeah so that there's no they're not going into that with some assumptions or knowledge yeah and so that if so therefore if it's not in the wall book they won't know it because yeah yeah so that's that's that's always important i think

totally different skills so yeah so that's been really interesting for me and it's one of those things i think you get to a point where you're too close to see it and you have to put it out to other people to feedback and things so yeah so that's yeah you need to give it to people who don't already know how to play the game yeah so that there's no they're not going into that with some assumptions or knowledge yeah and so that if so therefore if it's not in the wall book they won't know it because yeah yeah so that's that's that's always important i think

You almost have to tell people what a card is. You have to get that basic almost, really. You can't assume anything. You can't assume that the player knows a single thing.

You almost have to tell people what a card is. You have to get that basic almost, really. You can't assume anything. You can't assume that the player knows a single thing.

But still. So again, really glad with where that's got to. Yeah, I think one of my favourite things is always when your first proof copy of a book arrives and you open it up and it's all laid out and you can see the art and the tech and it all looks gorgeous. So do you remember getting hold of the first proper pretty proof version? Prototype, yeah. Prototype, yeah, of the game.

But still. So again, really glad with where that's got to. Yeah, I think one of my favourite things is always when your first proof copy of a book arrives and you open it up and it's all laid out and you can see the art and the tech and it all looks gorgeous. So do you remember getting hold of the first proper pretty proof version? Prototype, yeah. Prototype, yeah, of the game.

Do you remember that occasion? So that hasn't happened yet.

Do you remember that occasion? So that hasn't happened yet.

And it was just that moment of... I will open it and I will instantly see a typo straight away. No matter how many times it's been edited. You open it, look at it, typo. First thing you see. Always, without fail. It's quite frustrating. That really wasn't a dig, it was an observation.

And it was just that moment of... I will open it and I will instantly see a typo straight away. No matter how many times it's been edited. You open it, look at it, typo. First thing you see. Always, without fail. It's quite frustrating. That really wasn't a dig, it was an observation.

but you know i i kind of feel like for you you know it's a first step in building a portfolio of games and building your brand as a game designer and for us it's exactly the same thing it's the first step in building a portfolio of board games and building a brand as a board game designer you know we're both in exactly the same position here yeah at least how i see it anyway