Jessica Schaefer
Appearances
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
There's no one to speak to at night. And so I think the process is fundamentally flawed right now. And to your point, there are some VC backed fertility companies that are cutting corners basically to reach their growth targets. And You'll see in their success outcomes and what has led to a live birth. They're just not hitting where they need to be.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Yeah, I think there are opportunities to use technology to help. There is no reason that someone like myself should have taken the trigger shot accidentally. You could get updates on your app or you could get basically be meeting with a nurse or a fertility specialist more often. often via telehealth, which is not happening right now. I think there's also ways to incorporate AI into the process.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
There are so many questions that you have just because you're anxious, right? You said you were suffering from a lot of anxiety. I was suffering from a lot of anxiety during this process. And I would want to know just answers to the most basic things to make sure I was doing it correctly. So you can actually program
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
AI based on the doctor's responses so that at night, if you have questions, they can be answered. And so there are ways where we could provide a concierge really custom high level model to this industry without cutting corners and make it so that it's profitable. And I don't think that a lot of the fertility companies out there right now are doing that. So most of them are started by doctors.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And I think doctors, they're used to being around needles. They're used to being around these like ugly red bins with the crazy, you know, danger sign on them. We're not.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And so I think if someone were to come in from outside of the industry who has gone through the process, who was a patient, who has a focus on marketing technology and can apply some of those resources, we could provide a much different experience.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Yeah, so I'm investing in this space and I'm also working on a company in stealth in this area. But we're basically investing in AI, a technology platform that will transform the industry in the way that is being done now so that... Someone like me never has the experience that I had before.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
But at this point, I've spoken to close to 200 women just through customer research to make sure we get the product right. And every single person has the same experience. I have not met one person who had done the cycle one time, who didn't experience anxiety, who didn't feel alone. Not one person.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
On the VC funding, I come from a different seat, mostly because the PR firm I built, we worked with a lot of venture capital funds, but we were primarily focused in fintech. It wasn't until the last two years of the company that we started to see this shift. And there was so much more capital flowing into healthcare, flowing into femtech.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And from my perspective, it made sense to transfer into this industry. I really believe that you need to be able to spot waves and know when to get off. And so Bevel was always focused in fintech and crypto. And then we just started to see the doors open here. On the funding, specifically for women healthcare companies, even this year, women's rights are certainly top of mind on the ballot.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And so I think that it's not just... our issue. It's everyone's issue. And so I think communicating to VCs in the way that they would understand that, hey, listen, the U.S. growth rate and birth rate is the lowest it has ever been. And third world countries are outpacing our growth rates faster than ever. That's a conversation that anyone can digest because it'll have huge economic impacts.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And so it's not just a woman's issue. I think it's an issue for everyone.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
It's a population issue. Yeah, we're not having enough babies.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I think most people don't know because one in 4 billion people get egg yolk sac tumors. When I had it, there wasn't a cure, but an egg yolk sac tumor, it reached stage four, and I was treated at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester. And one of the graduates, a new graduate from medical school, Dr. Korones, he actually was able to find a cure and treat it very aggressively through chemotherapy.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
But my fertility was always like From a very young age, I was two and a half years old and then I was in the hospital for two years. Because I had chemo and because I had radiation, they were like, you're probably not going to be able to have kids.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
That's actually not true, but it's certainly when someone says that to you and then your parents are always talking about it, it's just something that carries on with you over the years. You're on a mission. I'm on a mission, yes.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Yeah, so I mean, on that, to your point, there's even more issues than just the thawing. There's issues of climate change. And let's say you have your ice frozen in a brownstone on the Upper East Side, or you have them in a storage facility, and then the power goes out, or there's a flood, or there's so many different things.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And I think there's been a lot of advances in terms of some people are suggesting that store your eggs in multiple places. So diversify where your eggs are stored. There are some women who are going to Europe to get this done just because it's much more affordable there. But I think here to your point, I do fundamentally believe it comes back to education.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And if you freeze your eggs earlier, the quality of the eggs will be much better. So right now, the average age women are freezing their eggs is 35. You should freeze your eggs at 25 and you shouldn't wait. And so the quality decreases basically every single year. And so that is what is affecting not just the thawing, but when you have the eggs, your success of actually creating embryos.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Thank you.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Well, and that's why the trigger shot is so important because it's actually timed to the size of the eggs. And if you have the procedure done too soon and the eggs are too small, or if you take the trigger shot too late and then the eggs are too big, all of this affects your chances of actually creating a successful embryo. And so that's part of it as well.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
It is a weird thing. I remember that was always the first question after, like, how many eggs did you get? As if it's a competition. It's not a competition. It's definitely not a competition. Like, let's focus on if we had a baby. Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
The one thing I would say is don't base it on whether you've had success dating. I have a lot of girlfriends who later in life, they, for whatever reason, they didn't find love until their late 30s or 40s or 50s. I think you can find love at any time. And I remember having conversations with them when they were in their 20s and them saying, oh, I might not have kids.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And now they're with a partner who they actually would want to have kids with and it's too late. So I would say freeze your eggs now, whether you're in a happy relationship or not, because it doesn't hurt to have the option later.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I had just sold my first baby. Wow. Bevel, this PR firm that I started and ran for seven years and had basically dedicated my entire life to work. And I had also just gone through a divorce. And so it seemed like something that was 100% necessary to do. Although I wish I had done it 10 years prior. Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
You've been through the process. Yeah. So you go into the clinic and... They don't really share the cost of the variables, the fertility drugs, which can be quite high depending on how your body reacts to the stimulants, right? And so they basically say, oh, it's a fixed cost of $10,000. But then the cost of the fertility drugs can be anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And then if you need to do it multiple times, then you're sometimes looking at close to $100,000 just to freeze your eggs. And what I thought was absolutely insane, we have Botox and fillers and IVs. But for one of the most important things, which is preserving your option to have a family, you are self administering the shots, which I just thought it was a little bit insane.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And then they send you to a link to a video from the 80s. And you're kind of like, I have no idea what I'm doing.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
What am I doing right now? You know, this could injure other people. I live in New York City. You know, you bring your trash out on the street. Who knows what was happening after that?
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I would say my journey isn't over. So I ended up actually taking the trigger shot early, which was triggering, which means I was supposed to have 28 eggs, but then I only was able to retrieve five and that's just not enough for a live birth. And so I'm planning to do it a couple more times. Thankfully, my AMH levels, which basically you can test how fertile you are.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And my doctor's, oh, you have the fertility of a 26 year old. You should just go get pregnant. And I said, that's not actually the point. It's not that I can't get pregnant. It's that I haven't found the person that I want to get pregnant yet with. So the first egg freezing, it was 15,000. But again, I'll have to do it a few more times.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Sure. So when you're going through the process, you have to take anywhere from one to three shots a night. So it can be very confusing and you have them all in your refrigerator. And so I accidentally took the trigger shot, which releases the eggs. And so basically I had 28 eggs.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And then when my doctor figured out what had gone wrong, he basically was like, okay, you can just do the entire process all over again. And I thought, that's crazy. One, I had spent a lot of money, but two, more importantly, it was my body and my time. And so it just felt like it was a bit of a cattle call. Oh, well, let's just go in for round two. They just turn around and do it all over again.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
It's a little defeating. Yeah.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Sure. I had a lot of girlfriends who had done it and they were all, oh, I'll come to your house and help you with the shots. And I thought that was just a little bit weird. strange. Like one, not that I didn't trust them. I just felt like a doctor should be doing it. I shouldn't be doing it. They shouldn't be doing it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
So that was a little bit strange, but also you reach this peak of your career, but then you think that you're going to be married or you think that things are going to be different and now you're freezing your eggs. And so I think the process, there isn't a lot of community around it and there's so much opportunity to just change the way that it is now.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Yeah, it was an interesting time in my career because I had just sold my company and I had an earn out. So basically you're expected to stay. And that time when you sell a company, it's very intense. And now I had a boss for the first time and I can't tell you how long. So I... for sure was not used to that. And he didn't act, you know, he didn't really understand the egg freezing process.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
So it's not something that feels natural to talk about. But I think that as women, we should be able to talk about it. We should feel more comfortable talking about it. And I think the workplace should make it so that it's not such a stigma and potentially give time off when you're going through this process, because you're also not supposed to be stressed. it decreases the quality of the eggs.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And it's very hard to do this because it's so time intensive and to work as hard as you're used to working.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I think employers need to start, actually, we need to turn the conversation so that we feel comfortable being able to go to your employer with this. 50% of companies now actually do offer fertility benefits, but it's still not the norm, I would say, especially for smaller companies. Some of the larger tech companies like Amazon and Google are offering it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
But actually, I think it's one step further. When you are going through this process, you should be able to take time off. You should be able to realign your schedule so that you can go and do it the appropriate way.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
Yeah, I shared that I was doing it. I had a lot of women at the company. We were a majority women executive team. And so I thought it was also important that they freeze their eggs. There are so many women I know who have dedicated their life to their careers. And I think at least my generation, you were told, oh, you can do it all.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And I think you can do it all, but you can't do it all at the same time. And so really analyzing, do I want to dedicate my 20s to my career and then 30s to my family or flip it? But these are things that people need to think about because God forbid you have the conversation like I wanted to have kids and
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I just didn't know that you could freeze your eggs or I didn't know that much about the process. And a lot of women wait until it's too late.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I stopped traveling, which is very rare for me. I was supposed to speak at all these conferences and travel on the weekends or even I decreased the amount of movement and kept my mornings open so that it wasn't as stressful. But I The doctors were like, oh, you can still travel and do all this stuff. But I'm like, it's just not worth it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
I think if you're going to do this, you really need to focus on it and invest the time and do it the right way. So you don't have to do multiple cycles.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
So it's the much larger companies and those in the healthcare industries. I actually haven't seen many smaller tech companies. So late stage companies where they have the ability to, but I also think it's not that much more. to add it on to your employment policies. So I think we'll start to see a lot more employers offer this and the younger generation, they're expecting it.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
One other thing that people can do is you can actually take your HSA and your savings and you can contribute a rollover Let's say you're 21 and you're getting your first job in tech. I would just recommend that women start to contribute to that and think about it almost as their family planning and not just focusing on your 401k. And then it's not as cost prohibitive as many people think.
Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
The Cost of IVF and the Future of Reproductive Healthcare with Jessica Schaefer
And we are starting to see that. I've spoken with a lot of doctors who have left some of the players you might be thinking about. And the reason is they're seeing 30 to 50 patients a day, which is just insane. You don't have enough time with your doctor. And then right now the process is you take the shots at night, you have to call. Let's say you have a question. Your doctor is not available.