Jill Bonnet

Totally furious about what had happened and having to explain to MPs, you know, all these signs that had been missed and apparently sometimes at least intended misleading of what was going on.

It is very hard.

It goes to the very heart of what the minister's relationship with officials are.

It's one thing for people to make mistakes after all, but if there is some kind of deliberate misleading or deception,

that's trust on a whole different level, isn't it, that's been broken.

So I think there's a lot of fences to be mended there.

Well, yeah, I mean, this has been going on since 2019, which would have been Ian Lees-Galloway's

And since then, we've had many immigration ministers.

Actually, some of this might have gone quite under the radar for a lot of the time and maybe deliberately, who knows.

But yeah, so I think that the minister, clearly the public service commissioner is also very angry about what's happened.

And I should imagine that MB as a whole is because obviously it casts aspersions on staff who are going about their business and perfectly truthfully and accurately and getting their jobs done efficiently.

So, yeah, there's a lot of people that have got some interest in knowing really what happened here.

It started in 2019.

It wasn't actually one of those things that got announced.

I think maybe it was one of those things that I said before went under the radar.

And it was only when it turned up in, started to turn up in briefings, then I put in NOIA and found some more information out and

started to get those weekly briefings that the minister gets and seeing the problems that were recurring.

So, yes.

So, was there one red flag for you?

How can I put this?